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Gathering information on a Motor Generator Bendix SM-D- 114304

highfavor1004

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I pick up a Motor Generator Bendix SM-D- 114304 the other day. I don't know much about it and thought I would ask about it beside that it converts 24 volts to 120. It was in a M35A2 tool box. I brought it home and hooked it up to the M109A2 and it seems to be working. It powered a hand drill with no issue. I am thinking about hooking it up to the ignition but my concerns is that it will kill the battery while the truck is idling. I have attached some picture. Any info is appreciated. Also final question is what do you think I could power off of it ie window Ac + small refrigerator, or just some lights?
 

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NDT

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3.48 amps is what I read on the plate. That's like 3 ea 100 watt bulbs. No fridges or a/cs.
 

rustystud

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They where used because they provided pure a 120 volt sine-wave . The electrical equipment needs this to work properly. Now in todays world you can get a 100 amp "Vanner" converter and just go straight to the batteries.
 

tim292stro

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...Now in today's world you can get a 100 amp "Vanner" converter and just go straight to the batteries...
Correction, you'd need an inverter.

That said, there are still benefits to motor-generators. If you have radio shelter and an internal device that uses 120VAC, you can power it from batteries and have no power wires outside your shelter other than the RF cables/wave-guides. Think about it this way, your batteries in a shelter would not radiate RF outside the shelter, and should you need to have an external DC feed, the whole shelter is negative (Ground), so you'd only need the one positive filter where it penetrates the shelter.

In more modern HEMP/TEMPEST shelters they do something similar by taking a "brother" motor on the outside of an enclosure, and spinning a non-conductive shaft in a waveguide-below-cutoff tube with a conductive plug and slip ring gasket in the middle of the shaft to allow the rotating shaft to pass through the enclosure shield. Inside the shelter they have the "sister" generator that makes the power - this way less total filtration is needed, and more COTS hardware can be used inside.
 

rustystud

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One thing that was not mentioned is that you loose power when you go from one form of energy to another. In the motor-generator system you are using electricity to power a motor that then makes electricity. You are loosing power by going to a mechanical system and then back to an electrical system. Unless your using real delicate radios or other electrical gear why bother ? If your just wanting to power some lights and a refrigerator go with the system that is the most efficient .
 

highfavor1004

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After talking with an electrical engineer, that blew my mind by the way, So this is what I understand it this generator is like an alternator but missing the convertor for DC power. According to his calculation the Generator produces around 400 watts. Please correct this if it is wrong.

Now as you have stated it is better to run straight to the battery. I need to put a kill switch some where. Also do they make a military 24 volt toggle switch and if so where can I get one?
 

tim292stro

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You'd need a big switch, that's a motor that draws 24Amps at rating, and at startup you can assume 100-150% increase in power draw - so for reliability you'd want a 50-65Amp switch (bigger here would definately be better) and that rating should be for DC. You also need a fuse between the battey and motor to protect the wires to the motor.

Yes 400watts output is what the math works out to from the data plate, also 660watts input is also what the dataplate works out to - an efficiency of only 60.6%.
 
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highfavor1004

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Okay when you say "an efficiency of only 60.6%" are you saying that it is pulling more power on the battery then the alternator can keep up when under a load?
 

tim292stro

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So you're asking about efficiency, don't take this post as an intention to discourage against the motor generator, I'm merely comparing vs an inverter - there was a similar thread not more than a week ago where someone wanted to charge 12V house batteries with a 100Watt motor-generator, attached to a mains type battery charger, and that thread is very near in my mind:

I'm saying that in order to provide 400Watts of power, it needs to draw 660 Watts from the power source to do that - 280 Watts (39.4%) is lost as "heat" in the electrical-to-mechanical-to-electrical conversions steps. That waste heat that doesn't go out the 120VAC circuit, still comes from your DC power supply (battery/alternator), so it has a significant impact on run times. Also consider the heat generated - you're basically running a 300Watt light bulb where ever you put that Motor-Generator, so it needs good ventilation to keep from burning up or burning your enclosure down.

Conversely, this 24V 600W pure sinewave inverter has a stated peak efficiency of 85%, so to output 600Watts of pure 120V AC, it draws only 706Watts from the power supply (again at peak load). To deliver 200Watts more power to the 120VAC circuit, it generates 180Watts LESS heat.


On the topic of efficiency,

Modern inverters have what is effectively a "Gear-shift" where a light load (think like a light in a refrigerator, or a clock on a microwave) doesn't need the full output of an inverter so it drops to a smaller inverter stage, once a big load kicks in (like the refer's compressor, or the microwave's magnetron) the bigger stage of the inverter kicks in. A motor generator can't slow down with a lower load, since that would directly change the frequency of the AC power, so it constantly has to overcome the friction and Back-EMF of both spinning the motor and the generator (same problem with a fixed RPM internal combustion spun generator).


Here's a calculation for you to consider:

Diesel fuel in florida currently: 2.21 - 5.99 gallon (from this site)
1 gallon of diesel fuel = 128,488BTU/hr or 37.656kW (from this site)
Fuel to mechanical rotation efficiency of ideal DIESEL engine is 35%, so generated mechanical power from 1 gallon of diesel is: 13.180kW

From here out we'll assume there is no friction, and no drive train parts that need to be spun (i.e. clutch, transmission input shaft, etc..) in the engine and all of the energy in the

Belt from crank to alternator ideal efficiency is 95%, so available alternator shaft power is: 12.521kW
Alternator efficiency is ideally about 85%, so DC power generated by the main engine with that gallon is: 10.643kW

Getting to this point is already "expensive" in lost efficiency, we went from about 38kW down to about 11kW just to get to where we can input to the motor-generator - that a total efficiency of about 29% to convert from diesel to 28VDC. We can extrapolate that the single gallon of diesel would get you about 16hours 40minutes of run time for your motor generator, or about 23hours, 20minutes of run time for the inverter. In the best case the Motor-Generator will cost you about 13 cents ($0.13) per hour to run, while the inverter would cost you 9.4 cents ($0.09) per hour to run - a difference of 4 cents per hour ($0.04). Obviously this is way over-simplified, unless there is storage of that extra 10.34kW of power the truck's alternator creates with the 1 gallon of diesel in an hour, the efficiency plummets to about 2% - we are also excluding the wear on the engine, filters, lube and those associated maintenance costs - if the Motor-Generator is a brushed DC motor, you have those parts and costs to account for as well (the inverter option would not likely have service/maintenance needs). We are also assuming that the devices are outputting 400Watts continuously, not intermittently as is more often the case.

Considering the cost to operate the inverter is only 70% what it costs to run the Motor-Generator, a $200 Samlex pure sine-wave inverter that outputs 600Watts, would only need to be run for 5,000 hours before it is cheaper than the Motor-Generator. If we're talking running a light outside for 8 hours a night, that would take two years to pay back.

Just food for thought... :beer:


It's my opinion (and only an opinion) that if you are looking to power significant AC loads from a DC power supply, it's in your interest to use an inverter - they can be had cheap and are wicked simple to replace should a failure occur. A neat trick with an inverter is to hack your 120V refrigerator's thermostat switch into the On-Off switch of the inverter and hard-wiring the compressor into the inverter output. This makes the control of the inverter completely passive (no power required to control, 100% transparent to to the fridge user getting a beer), and the inverter will only run when the compressor needs to run (huge gain in efficiency since you're not running the inverter to be ready for the fridge need).

A Motor-Generator has its place with low energy HEMP/TEMPEST sensitive 120VAC equipment (most of us don't have that problem... :tin hat:).
 
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