Glow Plug system..... help

[iamspencer]

hey any help greatly apriciated im in a jam between to mechanic opinions



on my 84 m1009 i had a bad controller modual and the guy that did it couldnt find a "military" one to replace it so they hot wired a button to my dash for the plugs

its been running loud until it heats up, like knocking ect.

a really good diesel mechanic told me it was becuase of the way it was wired up, that it needed the controller becasue the plugs will stay on util the engine heats up

and the guy that did the hot wiring said that the plugs only stay on util it starts up, which is why he wired it the way he did

basically im wondering if on the military 6.2s if the plug contoller stays on after start up
becasue it does on civialian models
and and also could i some how use civilin parts on mine becasue it has been converted to 12 volt system

 

[mangus580]

they dont 'stay on', they cycle. the reason its loud until it warms up, is because of the cold timing advance. You will notice, it lasts the same amount of time as the high-idle.

 

[iamspencer]

thanks for the repy mike

yes cycle that is the right word
they arent cycling becuse i dont have a modual
and what do you mean by the cold timin g advance and high idle

 

[FMJ]

Sounds like a mechanic who wants to soak you for some cash to fix a non related problem........

 

[CCATLETT1984]

when the engine is cold (measured by a sensor in the block) it advances the timing of the engine so the fuel is injected sooner into the combustion chamber. also when the engine is cold the idle RPM is held higher (so the engine can warm up, and not stall). once the engine block reaches a certain temprature (~130F) the cold idle and higher idle speeds are deactivated. (thats when your engine gets quieter). The stock glow plug system with the controller will still have this happen (its a "engine" thing, not a "glow plug" thing.) The stock system does glow the plugs for short intervals as the engine heats up, but the reason for this is more for smoke reduction than anything else.

 

[iamspencer]

i apreaciate your help alot


do you know the location of the temp sensor in the block
and what sytem m1009s have
like "fast glow"
"slow glow"

or somehtgn differnt

 

[FMJ]

Sensor is on the back of the, passenger side?, cylinder head. Its on the back of the cylinder head, theres only 2 so it should be easy to find. Fast/Slow, Not sure about the glow plug system, I bypassed the firewall resistors with a wire going to the front batt where I picked off 12 volts, and switched to 60g (12 volt) glowplugs from autozone. Had this mod in since last September with no problems starting. The rest of the GP system is military stock.

 

[sloride66]

Another glow plug controller tale of woe from another FNG

Hello all. Another new guy with glow plug issues. I picked up an M1009 today which did not run. Nice folks over there at the Ft. Meade GL yard. Robert led me back to where the trucks were and the troubleshooting began. 61/2 volts on front battery, none on the back. Back battery had frozen No big deal. Loaded it onto the trailer and headed back to VA from Ft. Meade, MD. No such thing as a 6T battery at the Zone, but I picked up a couple new 1000 CCA batteries on the way home. Installed batteries, attempted to start. No go. No glow plug light on dash when turn key to on. Others like 4wd, Gen1 and Gen 2 light work. Cranks to beat the band, but no combustion. Opened drain on fuel filter and observed diesel is flowing at least that far. Diesel is brownish but I had added a bottle of Sea Foam fuel treatment to the nearly full tank. Follow TM 9-2320-289-34 and TM 9-2320-289-20 P. God bless those who posted these by the way. Those and searching for related posts are lifesavers! But I digress.... IP checks out. Firewall relay seems OK. 24 V on lugs. No voltage at glow plugs with digital multimeter. Thus began my quest for the infamous glow plug controller. Ive been through the TM's and hunted around under hood and dash as well. I haven't found a diagram or pic with a direct part or location as yet. However, I found a plastic cover under the seat roughly the size to fit over the side of a pack of cigarettes. I also found the corresponding 9 wire socket under the dash it fits over. Is this the home of the elusive glow plug controller? If so any advice on where to find a new controller is appreciated. If not, does anyone know what did go inside here? Diagnostic hookup? Something plugs in there I'm sure. Can I live without it ?(I'm going to try the bypass switch and wire to the relay blue wire next)

As a post script I am really digging this site.I watch for new posts daily.You folks are amazing. Sort of an international motor pool w/ bench racing and bizarre adventures. Many of the military vehicles Ive seen on here have been restored to original or better condition. Others will be.The M1009 and the M101A1 trailer are probably only the start for me.I must admit I didnt really NEED either. Probably dont NEED an M35 or 5 ton either but it sure is tempting, as I've kept my CDL from years ago current. Thanks for any guidance or info you may provide.
Back to TM reading and head scratching....

 

[Mtrdrms]

That is where your glowplug controller card goes. Since it is not there it will not ground the blue wire at the resistor and therefore wont send voltage to the plugs. If I were you I would just install a small push-button switch on the dash under the light switch.
Its quite easy really. Just one of the wires off the switch to a solid ground and the other to the relay at the blue wire. Hold for 7 seconds and Voila! Combustion.

 

[m38inmaine]

Looks like someone helped themselves to your controll card. I would get a replacement so the plugs come on and cycle the way they were designed to. If someone else drives the truck they won't be doing any damage to the glow plug system by mistake.

 

[sloride66]

Roger that. God forbid the wife could burn up them there glow plugs accidentally. She already asked if she could drive it. If only it was a stick like my Jeep, then she wouldn't touch it !
I'm in the process of searching sites looking for an M1009 controller. So far I'm just finding conversions to other relays and controllers. Ford relay? What the....? If possible I will want an OEM controller card. This thing is very low mileage and not butchered up yet. I'd like to keep it that way. You're very correct though, someone else must have needed one earlier in the trucks' life.

 

[Crash_AF]

Well the Ford relay is the glow plug relay under the hood and it is cheaper and easier to source than the factory glow plug relay.

The controller card is a hard bugger to find... they show up on Ebay from time to time and occasionally the surplus dealers will have them.

Later,
Joe

Here's one on Ebay right now...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CUCV...rQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_567wt_1369

 

[m38inmaine]

flmv.net lists the controll card/harness, $150.00, they also have the relay $32.50. So far this is the only place I see the parts listed, I know the relay is in stock as I just bought a couple from them, good to have a spare.

 

[Armada]

Ditto. Front line Military (flmv.net) has some of the harder to find cucv parts and he is great to deal with. Also, you may want to post your needs in the classified 'wanted' section. Lots of guys have 'parts' trucks on here that may have a controller card they could part with. Glad you are keeping your starting system original. It works great the way it was designed.

 

[sloride66]

Controller assembly ordered.

Front Line has a couple hundred of my dollars now and is shipping parts today. You're right, he's a nice guy. Thanks to all for your guidance and advice. Much appreciated.

 

[kc8oye]

I know very little about diesel engines so forgive me if I sound stupid..

Generally speaking, the glow plug controler would keep the glow plugs on for 7 seconds.. after this, the 'wait' light goes out, and when you try to start the engine, the hot glow plugs provide that extra little boost to get the diesel burning on a cold engine.. right so far?

with that.. If the glow plugs are left on for too long, they will burn out correct?

Would this glow plug controller look somewhat like a standard GM lights-on chime box that is wired in to the slave jack harness?


I'm asking becuase my buddy just got an M1009 and is using it as a plow truck. I got the 24v charging system working after someone connected somthing up wrong and smoked a number of fusible links.

someone had wired a switch into the dash to turn the glow plugs on manually, and his son left them on for about 1/2 hour or so, and now the truck won't start.. I'm ASSUMING the glow plugs are now toast?

I don't know why the glow plug controller is bypassed, but I'm about 99% sure that the glow plugs are still wired to the 24v side with the resistor pack, and I don't see any reason to change it, unless the resistor packs are smoked, then it might be easier just to move them back to 12v..

I see a lot of refrences to the military docs for these trucks.. are there just basic wiring schematics flying around? I'm a competent 12v wiring specalist.. but w/o diagrams, it's taking me 10 times longer to get anything done on this truck.

Thanks in advance.. btw.. LOVE this website

 

[mistaken1]

From: TM 9-2320-289-20

Page 1-15

e. Glow Plugs. Operate as part of electrical system and assist in engine starting in cold weather. Temperature self-regulating AC 13G glow plugs preheat air in precombustion chambers prior to combustion. Glow plugs are energized prior to engine cranking for a “pre-glow” period and remain on shortly after engine startup for an “after glow” period.

I have not finished reading the manual yet but does anyone know how long the pre-glow and after-glow times are?

 

[sloride66]

TM'S are under Resources-Technical Manuals

The tool bar near the top of this site has a Resources tab and the Technical Manuals others have graciously posted in Adobe .pdf form are linked from there. As a fellow new to these vehicles myself I will leave it to others to anwer your tech questions. I just learned from those answering my questions that there are different versions of the same TM. For example -20P is parts manual and -20 is instructional manual. Doh!

 

[kc8oye]

sloride yeah thanks.. I found that. after downloading the massive PDF file (some 16mb I think) I thumbed through it this afternoon and found most everything I need to know :>

 

[kc8oye]

woo hoo... Nailed it!! thanks for making that TM available.. it answered all of my questions, and then some

turned out he had two glow plugs that were bad, and one that was diconnected.. but the main problem was that glow plug solonoid died. it was clunking, but not connecting power.

so I cut all the ends off of the glow plug wires since they were all hacked up crimped-on jobs anyway.. neatly soldered new ends on.. shrink wrapped the connection, then shrink wrapped the whole connector to keep it insualted..

i had to replace one glow plug wire completely because it had been broken just about an inch from the splice, so I picked up a basic 16 ga fusible link at the parts store and ran ordinary wire down to the plug from the fusible link.

I could only get AutoLite glow plugs locally.. they seem to work ok. the engine had delco glow plugs in it.

i also took each glow plug out, cleaned the threads and the contact, verified it's resistance (they were all about 1.1-1.3 ohms for the ones that were good)


after that, it fired up with no problems

thanks again for the help!


now to figure out why there is a break in the circuit between the purple starter wire at the relay under the dash.. and the firewall.. hrrm.. oh well that's another thread i think