good thread deleted

[jaxsof]

But really, one can expect that sometimes from "a bunch of loose cannon wacko militants" like some think we have around here. You just gotta understand, all families have a wierd uncle Rick or John...

Hey, I like trains so much, I got a job on a railroad.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Have you looked at my signature? I practically OWN one!

I thought there was some good stuff in the thread, and I'll also agree, some good threads go down hill fast around here...

 

[clinto]

But really, one can expect that sometimes from "a bunch of loose cannon wacko militants" like some think we have around here.

And we reinforce those opinions with our scheduled monthly "What do I do when the anarchy comes?" threads.

I say we have enough of them and there shouldn't be any more. They reflect badly on the military vehicle hobby and they take us from protectors and restorers of historically significant vehicles to crazy tin foil hat nuts.

I've said this before......... but it bears repeating because I know nobody actually reads the threads on this site.

One day, some piece of legislation of is going to show up in your town or State and you aren't going to like it. You'll get a coalition together of like minded citizens and mosey on down to your local Representative's office, make your case calmly and rationally, supported with statistics and sources and they will tell you "they'll look into it".

As soon as you walk out of that office, the Rep will say to the Aide(s), "Go find out who these guys (in this case, HMV collectors) are and see how much money and (political) muscle they have". And that aide will google "military vehicles" and they will immediately find SS, they will come here, create an account and they will see all the BS that's posted (survivalist malarkey, anti govt sentiments, etc.).

A few days later the following meeting will occur:

"What's the story on these army truck guys?"

"Sir, don't even go near those guys. If we help them and the media gets a hold of it, we're going to accused of helping anti-govt. militia survivalist whackjobs. There are threads on that site about how to steal fuel when the govt. falls and that's just the beginning."


Also, the following will occur:

Democratic Aide "And there's no point in helping them, they hate us to a degree that we'd never get their vote, so why waste time on them?"

Republican Aide "And there's no point in helping them, we've already got their votes locked down tight, why waste political capital on them?"


I know this will fall on deaf ears and I'll get flamed for it, but that's fine. Flame away. The truth hurts.


I got news for you jokers: The world isn't going to collapse or fail. The govt. isn't going to collapse. Corporate America would never allow it. So get on with your lives-find something that makes you happy and chase it as hard as you can.

 

[3dAngus]

Completely agree with Clinto. One thing to add;

The solution is, has always been, and will continue to be good moderation through our moderators who make a lot of sacrifices to keep this web cleaned up.

The solution is, delete individual posts, not complete threads that have something to offer the community.

You don't punish the entire community for the actions of a few. You go to the source, and deal with it.

Nobody is perfect, and it's a tough job, but if there was substance to the thread that can be useful, it need be resurrected, and sanitized as appropriate.

 

[Unforgiven]

I haven't read any anti-government material here.

And if you're afraid of voicing your right to free-speech because you're afraid of the consequences, well then you don't deserve the right to free-speech.

 

[Darwin T]

I got news for you jokers: The world isn't going to collapse or fail. The govt. isn't going to collapse. Corporate America would never allow it. So get on with your lives-find something that makes you happy and chase it as hard as you can.

"Egypt"?

 

[clinto]

"Egypt"?

The change of govt. (popular uprising) is in no way shape or form even remotely close to the kind of "the end of the world" scenario that these "WTSHTF threads" are discussing. Egypt has water, power, sanitation, food, etc. The only thing they lost was internet access when the Mobarek govt. suspended it.

Plus, the Middle East is notoriously unstable. To somehow compare their situation (or the rollover in Jordan, etc.) to a complete failure of Western or International society's institutions is ludicrous at best.

I haven't read any anti-government material here.

Because to you it just sounds like politics as usual. Everyone interprets things differently. Plus most political threads get quashed, it's just that we can't catch everything.

And if you're afraid of voicing your right to free-speech because you're afraid of the consequences, well then you don't deserve the right to free-speech.

I can dodge folly without backing into fear.

I can tell my Boss that he's a fool. That's my free speech. He can fire me, that's my "right to work" state. I hold my tongue because the reality is I need a job.

So go ahead-announce your opinion for all the world to see in a forum where 99% of the people will agree with you. Just don't whine when it bites you in the future.

 

[wreckerman893]

I got news for you jokers: The world isn't going to collapse or fail. The govt. isn't going to collapse. Corporate America would never allow it. So get on with your lives-find something that makes you happy and chase it as hard as you can.

Clint......I have to respectfully disagree with you on that point. There are some circumstances that even corporate America (or the government) can not control.

We are one major natural or manmade disaster away from total anarchy. I was at Hurricane Andrew and my unit had boots on the ground at Katrina. I have seen first hand what happens when people have to fend for themselves. Mob mentality gets ugly quick.

When that happens....not if...when......the thin veneer of civilization will be gone fast.

Some of the things I pointed out in my postings are true. You can check them.

There are no huge warehouses of food waiting to be distributed to the masses in case of a disaster. There is at best a two week supply in the logistics system....assuming that there is still the means to deliver it should the fuel supply be interrupted.

The government is not obligated to protect individual citizens, only to "maintain order". If maintaining order entails machine gunning unruly crowds or confiscating private property then that is what the government will do. They will fight to the the bitter end to maintain the status quo even if it means destroying desperately needed resources.

Does that make me anti-government....no.......that makes me a realist. I still believe this is the greatest county in the world...that is not to say we don't have some lunitics running the aslyum.

If power grids fail there will be no clean water for millions of people. If it happens in the winter millions will have no heat. Our power grid is old and money is not being spent to upgrade or improve it. At best it is being patched and maintained.

2012 is supposed to be a peak year for solar activity. This is cyclic and the last time it happend the grid was very young but it was still affected. Solar flares can affect the grid, computer systems, satellites and other infastructure systems.

There are other scenarious but you get the idea.

Do I sit around obsessing about this.....nope...hope for the best plan for the worst.

Do I believe it can happen.....absolutely.

Am I totally prepared....nope...but I have made some preparations and have a survival mindset.

Are there other people with the same ideas as me? Yes they are....some are on this site and some are not.

My advice.....have a six month supply of food stashed...some cash, a source of clean water and the means and will to protect it.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

 

[Recovry4x4]

And all of these symantics will benefit this MV forum how? Just as the crowd went askew on the other thread, the same has happened here. I'm certain that there are plenty of websites devoted to the areas these threads have drifted to. Our focus here is military vehicles and I'll conceed that the original thread had some useful info but how on earth it drifted to where it went, I don't know. I did not delete it, I will not restore it. I won't undermine another moderators decisions. That should only be done by the admin folks. Agree or not, there are other areas to discuss anarchy, lets try to keep things here somewhat MV related. I know, one can drive their MV during one of these crisis' but you can also give a ride to a guy that wants to commit a homicide, doesn't mean it needs to be discussed here.

 

[3dAngus]

There should be an annotation on who deleted it, and maybe even why. Any moderator should be able to see it. If the OP could be given the name, even via PM, he could go back to him with the plea, and then we wouldn't have to listen to all the politics that this thread has grown to, due to the deletion.

 

[jesusgatos]

If you don't like it ------> door!

Really? That's your response? My point was that the moderating here is inconsistent to the extent that you can't reasonably expect the members to know what is/not acceptable and this thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Go back and take a look at where it went sideways. The very next post was made by a moderator, playing along. So if that's why the first thread got axed, then let's cut that **** out. I honestly don't care one way or the other. It's easy enough to filter through the bull****, and there's less of it on this forum than most of the others I visit. But moderate the content to any standards you see fit. Please just be more consistent and set a better example.

 

[patracy]

I need to talk to one of those Chilean soccer players. I wonder if we taste like beef, pork, or chicken.

 

[KsM715]

I agree with the mods deleting the whole thread rather than deleting just the offending posts. That way maybe people will learn to behave. What I mean is if there is a good thread going on and someone comes in and makes a stupid post everyone will learn to ignore it and move on rather than hi-jack the thread and start arguing over the stupid remarks made by one member, such as how this thread started out about deleting threads and it turned into how Egypt is collapsing and our Gov. isnt far behind.

Delete enough good threads and people with figure it out.

 

[jesusgatos]

There should be an annotation on who deleted it, and maybe even why. Any moderator should be able to see it. If the OP could be given the name, even via PM, he could go back to him with the plea, and then we wouldn't have to listen to all the politics that this thread has grown to, due to the deletion.

Don't know which moderator deleted it, but the reason given was,

"went wildly stupid"

Which I completely understand, but arbitrarily deleting threads that get off-track - I just don't see why it couldn't have been trimmed, and even locked if necessary. It's not even that I care so much about that particular thread. I'm just not inclined to spend time posting and adding content to a forum that is going to throw it away.

It's kind of like giving members the power to delete threads that they start. It happens all the time, where someone starts a thread, doesn't like the responses they get, and so they delete the thread. I would argue that the thread doesn't belong to the OP anymore. As soon as other members have taken the time to read and reply, it belongs to the community. That thread was not about zombies or the apocalypse. Not to me. It was about air/oil/fuel filtration, etc.

There's a lot of collective knowledge on SS, and I really appreciate that this forum brings all these people together so that we can share/exchange info and help each other out. Deleting threads that contain good technical content is NOT helpful. That's all I'm saying.

 

[3dAngus]

Ksm715, Respectively disagree in the strongest form.

Kinda like if one drops his rifle, then we all get down and push 20 pushups, huh?

This isn't the Army. I am responsible for my own actions, and don't want anyone else to be punished if I make an honest mistake. If someone, yourself included, made a really brilliant post that people could take home with them and use, which is the full intended purpose of this board, it would be a tragedy to see it get flushed because some other individual came up and made a comment out of line, which is not the fault of the originator of the post that offered reasonable and intelligent offerings.

That kind of nonsense is for something other than what this site represents to me, which is good moderation, control within reason, and one of the best managed sites I've seen. No need to just go and tick a bunch of good people off for the actions of a few, because when you do that, all the future efforts and/or contributions of the good come under question, and we all have to wonder if we will be punished again making our individual contribution and time put into a good future post absolutely worthless.

Standards are set for a reason. Mass punishment is Bullcrap, and is only the standard of the Military while in Training. It has no place here.

 

[jesusgatos]

I agree with the mods deleting the whole thread rather than deleting just the offending posts. That way maybe people will learn to behave. What I mean is if there is a good thread going on and someone comes in and makes a stupid post everyone will learn to ignore it and move on rather than hi-jack the thread and start arguing over the stupid remarks made by one member, such as how this thread started out about deleting threads and it turned into how Egypt is collapsing and our Gov. isnt far behind.

Delete enough good threads and people with figure it out.

Don't agree with you at all. Deal with the problem directly -> the person making the offending post. Give me a magic wand and I could clean-up this thread with a flick of my wrist.
(not asking to be a moderator thank you)

 

[doghead]

Perhaps you never noticed that Compromise is a fact of life.

Get over it and move on, or simply move on.

Neither of the two going on and on here, even know what was said between the deleting moderator and the OP.

Not once have I seen an OP or any other member , ask for people to stay on track or remove stupid posts. Maybe you could all take a little responsibility for your threads direction(self policing).

If you think the cyclonic filter info was so important to discuss, start a thread and discuss it.

 

[jesusgatos]

If you don't like it ------> door!

Get over it and move on, or simply move on.

OK. Fair enough, and perfectly clear. But it doesn't have to be like this. And if you want to talk about my conduct on this forum, I would ask you to please take a look at any of the 1,600 posts I've made. I use this forum primarily as a technical resource and the content of my posts reflect that. But I'm a relatively new member here, and I think it would be out-of-line for me to try and police the conduct of other members. Isn't that what moderators are for?

Regarding the content of the thread in question, I know what I posted. I wanted to reference some of the valuable posts made by other members. But I can't. Because it's been deleted. Or made unavailable to us.

 

[3dAngus]

Not once have I seen an OP or any other member , ask for people to stay on track or remove stupid posts. Maybe you could all take a little responsibility for your threads direction(self policing).

You have GOT to be joking.

As young as I am on here, self policing has been clearly evident, as well as OP's, includiing Moderator's who are OPs, have asked people to stay on track time and time and time again and often get the desired result. We have all seen people remove posts as a result. It's a pretty good group of guys who can do such a thing.

I think you completely misread the direction this OP was taking. Regardless of what agreement or compromise you and any other OP came to, there was some valuable time and effort wasted, and redoing a contribution what was already done by an individual isn't necessarily the right answer. Now we all need concern ourselves with whether our contributions will remain or will the be deleted by a Moderator who would throw away the Deuce for a flat tire.

 

[KsM715]

Ksm715, Respectively disagree in the strongest form.

Kinda like if one drops his rifle, then we all get down and push 20 pushups, huh?

This isn't the Army. I am responsible for my own actions, and don't want anyone else to be punished if I make an honest mistake.
Standards are set for a reason. Mass punishment is Bullcrap, and is only the standard of the Military while in Training. It has no place here.

The military uses it because its effective. Work as a team or face the
consequences.

The information in any thread is not lost forever. All you have to do is start another thread based around that info.