Hard Start Issue

ssdvc

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So, I drove my truck back from PA (a 6 hour drive) a few weeks ago and have been using the truck every few days after that. Everything seemed to be running as it should. Even a few days ago, when the temps dropped into the 20's, she fired right up on the first crank.

Over the weekend I gave her a long needed bath, as well as removing the cowl and washing out the trough under the cover when I swapped in my new windshield wiper motor. I did not use her after I got done with everything, as I was waiting for new wiper arms. Anyway, I went to start her yesterday morning. She fired on the first start of the key, caught almost immediately, but ran really rough and was pumping out a lot of blue-grey/white smoke from the exhaust. (on previous cold starts I didn't get any smoke). No matter how much throttle I gave her she would not rev up. She ran for about 30 seconds and then died. It did this several times and finally she refused to fire up at all (she cranks fine, just won't fire). I looked under the truck and noticed that she puked a little oil puddle directly under the rear seal (never did that before). Tried later in the day, after I changed the fuel filter, added some 911 to the tank and when the temps were closer to 30. Got the same result.

Now, if it was an IP related issue, wouldn't it show a few signs of failure before just quitting on me? I have had plenty of power and the truck was running great. Is there anything else I need to look at that could be causing this? The oil puddle is weird and it happened during the cranking/rough running. Could it be a clogged CDR? I just spent a bit of change getting the trans rebuilt and a new rear end put in. My wife will be looking for blood if it is another big ticket item (i.e; an IP).

Any suggestions from the more knowledgeable mechanics would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 

royalflush55

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The little puddle of oil could be diesel that came out of injection pump shaft seals. It runs down valley on top of engine, then thru a hole and down the back side of engine to the ground and looks like oil. Check it out. It could be a leaking supply hose that goes to same pump.
 

Squibbly

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Your glow plugs could be bad, and that is unburnt fuel blowing out.
Once it warms up (if you can keep it running) it'll probably smooth out.

I had the issue of rough running while warming up and the smoke etc...until I changed the plugs.
On occasion I had to push the pedal to the floor to get it started.
My son kept asking me what all the black stuff was all over the rims of his car (which he parks next to my truck). Lol.

The other option is swapping out the black fuel line going into the Injection pump in front of the air filter with some clear fuel host to look for bubbles.
 
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ssdvc

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The little puddle of oil could be diesel that came out of injection pump shaft seals. It runs down valley on top of engine, then thru a hole and down the back side of engine to the ground and looks like oil. Check it out. It could be a leaking supply hose that goes to same pump.
Thanks for that tip. I did have the supply hose replaced and will make sure it is still in place once the rain stops.
 

ssdvc

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Your glow plugs could be bad, and that is unburnt fuel blowing out.
Once it warms up (if you can keep it running) it'll probably smooth out.

I had the issue of rough running while warming up and the smoke etc...until I changed the plugs.
On occasion I had to push the pedal to the floor to get it started.
My son kept asking me what all the black stuff was all over the rims of his car (which he parks next to my truck). Lol.

The other option is swapping out the black fuel line going into the Injection pump in front of the air filter with some clear fuel host to look for bubbles.
The glow plugs have been replaced, so I don't think that could be a cause, but thanks for the info. I am going to check out the fuel line to the IP.
 

Barrman

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It reads like two different issues. Possible glow plug or two or three bad to cause the greasy white smoke and rough start up. Then is reads like fuel is either not getting to your IP or is leaking from your IP once it gets there and the IP lost its prime.

Here is the dilemma. You need the glow plugs to start it but you also need fuel in the IP and all the way to the injectors to get it to start as well. I think the IP problem should be addressed first. See if the valley is wet. If it is, find out where the fuel is coming from and fix that. It could be the 1/4" hose from the filter to the IP and it could be the shaft seals as already mentioned above. The hose is not fun to do, but cheap and easy related to swapping in a new IP.

Once the fuel is getting to the IP and staying there. Charge your batteries and crank the engine over with the key and IP on. Pink wire plugged in. I like to crank and count to 20. Let it sit for a measured 2 minutes. Crank for a count of 20. Let it sit for a measured 2 minutes. Normally if all is well the 3rd or 4th cycle will get a sputter. Then the next cycle it will fire up and smooth out pretty quickly.

Since you could have glow plug issues. Start looking in the mirror at the exhaust the 3rd or 4th cycle. Fuel but no heat from the glow plugs will start to put out the greasy white smoke. The thicker it gets the more fuel you have getting injected. If you have a few working glow plugs it might even try to start or maybe even start. It will kick and buck and shake until all 8 get running with heat in them. Pay attention to the cranking speed. If you hear or feel it slow down. Just stop there and spend the time to get both batteries all the way charged before you try again. Low voltage will hurt the starter as will too much heat from using it too long.
 

ssdvc

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Well, had a doctors appointment yesterday and got 12"+ of snow overnight (and still coming down), so I didn't do much to troubleshoot yesterday. However, I did verify that the fuel line is attached to the IP and that there is no fuel in the valley. I will next check to see if I am getting fuel to the filter before moving to an injector.

I did check the CDR valve and managed to remove it. First, there was a decent amount of oil in the hoses going to it and coming from it (and to the manifold) . Also, when I shook the CDR itself, I didn't get any rattle. I thought those things acted like a PVC valve and, if working properly, I should hear a rattle in it when shaken. Could this have caused my problem? Anyway, I'll replace the valve and clean up the lines before installing. I also noticed that the rubber elbows are in pretty sad shape, so I may get some new ones.
 

Barrman

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The CDR valve deals with oil consumption and venting the blow by back into the incoming air charge. It has nothing to do with starting the engine. You can pull the intake manifold off and the engine will start no different.
 

cucvrus

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The rubber elbows are getting hard to find. The F part is almost non existent. Be good to what you have and patch and play from this point. Glad to hear my fuel line replacement was not the culprit. I thought I could change a fuel line and do it right. I do know the feeling. I had a perfect running M1009 with a brand new injection pump. Brand new not rebuilt. It lasted 3 months and failed in the middle of a Nor'easter a few years back. I danced around everything else before saying "Well it is the injection pump" And same here no notice driving thru deep snow and BAM. it shut off and that was that. --IT happens. Good Luck. Not the news I wanted to tell you but factual.
 

ssdvc

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Yeah, I hear ya on the IP Rick, but I am going to check everything else (cheaper stuff first) first. If after I go down the list and find out it is the IP, then I'll cry, get beat up by the wife and then I guess I'll give Badger Diesel a call, unless someone else has a more reliable place to get an IP from??

As for the CDR Barrman, understand all. The only reason I brought it up is when I tried to keep her running and she was blowing all that smoke, I looked under the truck after she shut off and noticed I had a nice little puddle of oil below where the rear seal was. I was wondering if excessive crank case pressure may have had something to do with everything.

That said, and back to my question, does the CDR have a valve in it the rattles like a PCV ? If yes, I need to replace mine, because it doesn't make a sound and I think there is a lot of gook inside.
 

ssdvc

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Finally got some help yesterday and got the truck in the garage. Didn't have time to get into some real troubleshooting, but I did try to crank her over one more time before I did. Still no joy. She spins over easy enough, with no drama, but she won't fire, or even try to. Next step is a check of the fuel pump.

I have to get her up and running within the next several weeks, as my past life and all those years of thinking I was indestructible are finally catching up with me. Getting old is not for the weak.
 

cucvrus

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Fuel pump is easy to diagnose as you know. I don't know how to walk you thru that with the filter you have but if you open the bleeder and crank it over it will pulsate fuel out under pressure. Are you sure you have operational glow plugs? I see you changed out the 13 G glow plugs. But i would pull all 8 glow plugs and bench test them. I know that people use multi meters and test lights. I think it is time well spent getting a bird's eye view of an operational or nonoperational glow plug. With the glow plugs out you could easily crank it over with the delivery nozzle nuts loose and see if fuel is being delivered to the nozzles. Good Luck with your misfortune. It is very cold out there this weekend. Take Care. I am in the same age bracket and working at new approaches and goals to projects. Constantly learning and getting things completed as I go. Hang in there.
 

ssdvc

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Thanks Rick. TM says to disconnect at the fuel filter, pull the pink wire and have a catch can ready. With the spin-on, it's easy (I just changed it out in case that was an issue). Glow plugs seem to be working. I took a Fluke laser temp probe to them and they all indicate that they are heating up pretty fast. They are also fairly new, about two years old. She is now in the garage, so all future starts should be in a 60 degree+ environment (propane heater !!) which should make a big difference if it is a GP issue of some sort.

Oh, and if the Fuel pump is working as it should, removing a GP or two and seeing if the nozzles are spraying fuel is the next step (IPTest).
 

flyfishtrailer

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Did you ever figure out where the leaky fuel was coming from.....I had a leak and a no run issue. Upon inspection, fuel appeared to be leaking out of the fuel filter base. As it turns out, there is a small O-ring in the bleeder side. It had gone bad, and I was leaking fuel and allowing air into the system there. Finding the replacement O-ring was a pain, but I did and that solved all of my issues.
 

M1009_SPAIN

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Hello, could you be more precise? that fuel leak that you say, when did you start to start fuel flowing through the lower left part of the filter? do you have a picture of the board? I have a problem with the fuel filter, @cucvrush helped me start the truck, the glow plugs, purge the circuit.... thanks to him I managed to bring my m1009 back to life, now for work things I had to stop with the project but recently got back to work,

If you could confirm if you were losing fuel from the lower left part of the filter, and how is the O-ring, it would be helpful, thank you
 

flyfishtrailer

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Hello, could you be more precise? that fuel leak that you say, when did you start to start fuel flowing through the lower left part of the filter? do you have a picture of the board? I have a problem with the fuel filter, @cucvrush helped me start the truck, the glow plugs, purge the circuit.... thanks to him I managed to bring my m1009 back to life, now for work things I had to stop with the project but recently got back to work,

If you could confirm if you were losing fuel from the lower left part of the filter, and how is the O-ring, it would be helpful, thank you
If you're referring to my issues, the leak was coming from the purge valve on the fuel filter block. There is a black plastic screw to use when purging air from the system after changing a filter. If you were to unscrew the air purge all the way out, there is a small O-ring in there to seal it up when the valve is closed. Mine was leaking fuel from that air valve screw because of the O-ring leaking fuel out and of course taking air into the system (start issues were probably more from lack of fuel than air in the system).
 

M1009_SPAIN

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If you're referring to my issues, the leak was coming from the purge valve on the fuel filter block. There is a black plastic screw to use when purging air from the system after changing a filter. If you were to unscrew the air purge all the way out, there is a small O-ring in there to seal it up when the valve is closed. Mine was leaking fuel from that air valve screw because of the O-ring leaking fuel out and of course taking air into the system (start issues were probably more from lack of fuel than air in the system).

Do you have a reference number for the O-ring?

my problem was similiar, I have the series filter bypassed with a universal jumper to be able to start
 
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