HELP!! installing the rebuilt IP - MEP-002A Refurb Update

[Speddmon]

Joe,

Stay calm and take a step back for a few minutes and it will become clear. Seriously, you're looking into this too closely. Start off by following the TM and not the Ambac manuals. The Ambac manuals were written for rebuild shops and professional mechanics, whereas the TM's were written for an 18 year old kid fresh off the farm who hasn't even seen a deisel, much less worked on one.

Follow the flow timing method in the -34 TM on page 7-39. You don't need to pull the IP, just remove the delivery spring. Use the button you have in the pump currently. That test will tell you if the button is the correct one or not. If the flow stops on the "PC" mark, you are timed properly and ready to move on to another possible cause. If not, then you know you need to get the right button and re-try to run it.

Like Ike said, we're all here to help you and hopefully others will learn from this tread. There is a lot of GREAT information being tossed around in this one. We'll get you going sooner or later.

 

[joesco]

Could it be something simple, just a couple of thoughts.... Reading the TM this morning, it states that in cold weather starting the air intake control should be moved to the "cold weather" position. Mine is not marked. Looking at the control lever from the fuel filter side of the set, should this lever be slid to the left or right?

Also, on the fuel cap which position is considered open for venting? Of note, there is a wing-type nut on the underside of the cap, but no hole for venting on the top side. Is this correct? Thanks!

 

[Speddmon]

Yeah, your fuel cap is correct, and should be marked on the outside of the cap "Closed" and "Vent". The wingnut looking thing should be pointed toward the vent mark. Either way, if it was not vented, it would in no way vapor lock it as quickly as you are experiencing. Also, the air intake is of little difference. You are still sucking cold air into the intake for the first probably 30 seconds of running anyway. The winter running position draws air from the "Shutter Box" around the mufflers...and if the engine hasn't been started for a few hours, the air in that box is just as cold as the air around the air intake mushroom. So in reality, for cold starting, the air intake cold weather starting position does very very little.

 

[Carl_in_NH]

I've not had to time a pump using the alternate method, but I did confirm that mine was timed correctly when I installed it using that method, Joe.

You're sure you've timed on compression for #1?

I can try to get over there at some point to look at it with you, but I don't have a lot of openings in my schedule right now.

 

[joesco]

Thanks Tom, just thinking as it might something dumb and simple!

Yeah, your fuel cap is correct, and should be marked on the outside of the cap "Closed" and "Vent". The wingnut looking thing should be pointed toward the vent mark. Either way, if it was not vented, it would in no way vapor lock it as quickly as you are experiencing. Also, the air intake is of little difference. You are still sucking cold air into the intake for the first probably 30 seconds of running anyway. The winter running position draws air from the "Shutter Box" around the mufflers...and if the engine hasn't been started for a few hours, the air in that box is just as cold as the air around the air intake mushroom. So in reality, for cold starting, the air intake cold weather starting position does very very little.

 

[joesco]

Thanks Carl, number 1 is the right cylinder, (towards the fan) correct? I trade you a prime rib sandwich for a visit some day!

I've not had to time a pump using the alternate method, but I did confirm that mine was timed correctly when I installed it using that method, Joe.

You're sure you've timed on compression for #1?

I can try to get over there at some point to look at it with you, but I don't have a lot of openings in my schedule right now.

 

[Carl_in_NH]

Yes, number 1 is next to the blower wheel, Joe.

 

[PeterD]

Why don't we arrange a NH get together at Carl's place (which seems central to all us (southern) NH people... Joe, could you get your set over there in your truck?

 

[LuckyDog]

As far as the removing the injectors, it will be next to impossible as it looks like someone attempted that in the past and strip both nuts on the small fuel lines. Boy is this frustrating, to say the least!

I haven't stripped the nuts completely on mine yet.

I have read, as PeterD stated, that the return lines can clog. My tank also had a layer of "gunk" on the bottom. Since that is due to oxygen (air), I am hopping that when do get the return lines apart, I find gunk in it. The return line is open to air where it connects to the fuel tank. The last 90 degree fitting just dumps back into the tank (I think I am stating the obvious here). So, if there WAS fuel in the tank, it is possible there was fuel in the return lines and that also turned to "gunk". Maybe it was just in the belly of the big return line, but I have read other threads were one of the other fittings in the path were clogged.

I keep soaking the fittings with PB Blaster (when I remember) . I will probably also use a torch to heat things up when I try to bust the nuts loose. I am nervous about that though.

If ya'll are getting together at Carl's on a weekend, let me know. I would like to join if I may.

 

[PeterD]

BTW, if for some reason Carl can't host something like this, I'd be glad to do so. Only issue is that for Joe, I'm further away (about 30-45 minutes or so further west). I do have a large shop and tools, which everyone should have!

 

[Carl_in_NH]

A get together is possible here at my place; I'll take a look at the scheduling situation and see if I can come up with a date that would work.

 

[oshpunit987]

Joe

I talked to the Texan a couple times and he told me he has worked on these generators a lot and that he has checked many injectors and has only found one that was bad. If your machine runs I don't think you have an injector problem. It should also run on one cylinder but not well. He can also tell you what it will do with the wrong timing button installed but I don't remember what he said. I do remember he said you will know something is wrong when the wrong button is installed. That makes 3 repair shops that say use the original button. I believe Carl told me he replaced a pump once and he used the original button too. It wouldn't hurt to call the Texan and listen to what he has to say. Good luck.

Allen

 

[jimbob1111]

Hi guys,
I've been watching this thread off & on. I figure for what it's worth, I might as well add my 2 cents.
I bought a MEP002A, 1600 Hrs on the clock, It had a new engine/ generator assembly & fuel pumps installed prior to the GL auction. The new engine didn't run & it had never run, no soot in the exhaust pipe. I had fuel to the injection pump, nothing at the injectors. I took the injection pump apart & found the "D" shaped plunger rod twisted in the guide that spins it. I cleaned everthing up best I could put it back together and it ran for maybe 5 minutes? I had to wait about 3 monthes for some reman pumps to hit Ebay. AMBAC's price was crazy for a reman pump.
I reused the original button & checked pump timing using the Port closing per IF No. 3136. The reman pump had a copy of 3136 & a fill-in the blank BUTTON SELECTION SHEET with it. My timing was right on.

There is a caution on one of the pages, that states ,the preserative applied to the new pump needs to be dissolved with fresh diesel for 15 to 30 min, or the plunger could stick and damage the pump. I suspect this is what happened to the new engine assembly on my MEP002A.

At the point where your gen only runs for a few minutes, then dies.
I used some clear plastic line & brass female barbed fittings from H-D.
I plumbed a low pressure fuel gauge in between the filter outlet and the inj pump inlet. Then I put a clear piece of line, in the return line.

The clear line is VERY important so you can see what is going through it. Maybe dirt, air bubbles ect.

Step 1: Verify correct fuel pressure & return flow to the tank.

Step 2: Hold your fuel solinoid up in the "fuel on" position & fire it up.

Step 3: Let it run, observe fuel press, volume & return.

Step 4: When it quits running does it have correct fuel press, volume & return flow?
If yes, crack open the high pressure lines @ the injection pump and crank the engine. You should get fuel out of the high pressure side going to the injectors.

If your fuel supply, is on the money & nothing comes out the high press lines while cranking the engine, it's in the injection pump.
If you've lost supply press or volume find out why.
This is how I diagnosed my injection pump.

Sorry for the long winded post, I'm late for work, gotta go!
HMFG

 

[treeguy]

I have some to add to this but don't know where to start so please bear with me.
First, LuckyDog and Joesco, have you guys read "MEP 002A not starting" and My first MEP-003 start"? (I don't know how to do links I appologize.)
Joesco when you turn the start control knob to prime, do the low fuel press. pumps click and how fast? When you say that it runs for a couple seconds, is it actually running or trying to fire and sound like running while you are holding the starter. You have to hold the starter switch for a very long time (until you build oil press) until it will run on its own.I think that the very first priority here would be to make absolutly sure that the fuel system is clean and without said gunk. There is also an over heating sensor behind the shutters that will also tell the plunger to kill the fuel, I have mine jummped together until I can replace the corroded one. These engines are basic and I have found that the most hair pulling out problem is dumb simple. Check out my pic in the MEP 002A not starting thread of the shattered fuel control washer. I was pulling my hair out tracking down everything you guys have mentioned from dirty fuel to stuck injectors. This dumb washer was the entire problem, your prob. is most likely something simple that you haven't checked yet. I want to help so please let us all know what is going on and what your doing.

 

[LuckyDog]

TreeGuy,
Right now I am soaking my nuts with PB Blaster....

Until I can get that return line fitting that connects the injector return lines to the IP, I can't even pull the IP. I am hoping it is something simple. I figure when I get the return lines off, I will doubly check them for cleanliness before pulling the IP.

I took the supply line off the IP and watched the fuel flow into a 5-gal fuel can. Clean and steady. I just can't get the returns off to see what they look like. I have a dribble back into the tank from the return line. I don't have enough experience to know if that is the usual flow or not.

My plunger was stuck in the IP when I got it from GL. I did what ODFever did ... http://www.steelsoldiers.com/467457-post10.html It now runs for a few seconds to maybe 30 seconds. (That is AFTER I release the start switch.)

The #2 glow plug has died and needs to be replaced. I think that is a recent failure because I checked them before I tried to start it the first time and they all checked out ok.

SO, My plan, based on all the great information from you guys is:
Get the return lines off and ensure they are clean.
THEN, if needed, pull the IP and clean and inspect carefully.

When it was running for about 30 seconds, it sounded pretty smooth. I am hopefull that it will be up and running soon. These are simple designs. That is why I bought one. I like simple! (but sometimes simple ain't easy)

 

[jbk]

i have been reading this thread with intrest also. i know you have some leaks but you say it runs until you release the start switch. i wana say a safety and the oil preasure and high temp. is all i remember. have you checked that high temp. switch behind the air discharge shutter treeguy had mentioned? you will have to take care of that glow plug though would account for the white smoke, hard starting. i see them for sale on e__y.

 

[treeguy]

There are two glow plugs, I don't know if they are both used and if one is a spare that you can just switch the wire to the other one, I'm not sure. The dribble you hear returnig into the fuel tank is normal, and if it sounds like a dribble like (mine does) your good. In regard to your stuck nuts soaking in PB, you can tell if you are getting high press fuel to the injectors by loosening the, I think 7/8, nut on the top of each injector or if you can take out the allen threaded plug in the top of the same nut I just mentioned. Once you get either of these free put them back on but not wrench tight and turn over the engine. If you can be at two places at once, see if you get fuel at this point. It will tell you if your IP is putting out. I took out my injectors to clean them, all of the parts are stuck real good to eachother from corrosion and dissimilar metals. There is a cooling fin spacer unit on the injector body. If you are careful you can use a vice or pipe wrench to gently persuade a twisting motion and then pull the injector out of the aluminum unit, but don't break it. If you take appart the injectors you must count the threads on the allen holed cap which puts the right spring tension on the injector needle. If you get it wrong, see TM, you need a I don't know where on the planet, calibration machine to set the spring tension. Just count the threads. If you take off the large hex cap on the front of the IP and carefully remove the spring and needle set and crank the engine you should be able to see from the control pannel a nice shot of fuel jetting straight out. This would indicate to me a good IP and fouled injectors. I know you said it ran for 30 sec. so it must be getting fuel some how but I guess the question is why it stops getting fuel? Bad air intake? I don't know. Try this out and let us know. If she is running for 30 sec. and the plunger on the fuel control is not pushing the linkage down when it dies than it is not the low oil or the over heat sensor telling it to kill the engine. It is some thing else. Your plunger stays up right, if not MAKE it stay up or remove the whole plunger unit and try to run it and see if she stays running, you can kill it by pushing the linkage down yourself.

Just so you and others know DON'T ever idle these units, you'll fry the voltage regulator, keep the throttle pulled 3/4 the way out while you are trying all this, then once you figure it out you can fine tune the throttle to get 60HZ on the gauge.

 

[treeguy]

Luckydog, for some reason I am thinking you mentioned that your generator used to run. Am I correct or did I misinturprate something I read?


Does anyone know if the air filters in the classifieds will work on the MEP 2's? They look like they have two openings on them, or is the one on the side the intake and won't work for the warm air shutter set up the jennys have? I have some cancer on my filter housing and have been keeping an eye out for a replacement but it is looking like I will have to cut and weld in some patches, I don't think it is a common set up with the slidy shutter for sub zero conditions.

 

[joesco]

Peter / Carl,
Been off the net the last few days with a health setback. Sorry for not responding. At the moment, I don't have a way to get the genset over there. My Dakota does not have a receiver hitch / pintle. When I get back on my feet, I might be able to unbolt it from the trailer and load in the bed of my PU with my loader. Will let you know. Really appreciate the offer though!

Why don't we arrange a NH get together at Carl's place (which seems central to all us (southern) NH people... Joe, could you get your set over there in your truck?

 

[LuckyDog]

Hey Joe,

Glad to see ya back on the net. Hope you get back on your feet soon. But, hey, with this weather, just enjoy a couple more days rest.

When I didn't see any response from you and all the responses to my last posts, I was getting worried I had hi-jacked your thread.

Glad to see ya posting again...
Paul.