!!Help!! M809 Series Starter trouble

[Boosted_Nelson_Inc.]

First of all, I have no experience with 5-tons, so of course I had to have one. Today I went to Drexel Gardens, IN to pick up the M818 I bought on GL. Truck looks good except for 10 well worn tires (the spare is brand new). Batteries all had decent voltage, but when flipping the ignition switch to start all I get is a click from a relay I assume. Also every once in a while, when turning the battery switch to on, the gauges and buzzer for the air pressure failed to react.
I know it wasn't a battery issue, because a helpful member of our armed forces came along and offered to get a set of slave cables and jump us from his M931 tractor. Unfortunately, it didn't help. He then gave the Protective Control Box a few good hits with a wrench, and tried jumping the selenoid on the starter, but we just got a few sparks. I tried smacking the starter with a mallet, but still no change.
Finally, we tried pull starting it, but due to snow and ice covered roads, we couldn't get up enough speed to accomplish anything.
Has anyone had this problem before? It looks like I'll have to replace the either the PCB or starter (or I guess the motor could be locked up), but I wanted some advice before I blow a couple hundred bucks on parts.

 

[MilitaryRestoration]

Batteries having decent voltage doesn't mean everything... you need cranking power. Put a tester on them and check them. Or you can also put other batteries in there. If there isn't enough power being supplied on the 5tons the solenoid will not open. Also the plunger on the solenoid could be stuck or the starter could be stuck in the 'start' position. I've got the same problem right now and i'm just going to replace solenoid to start with and then possibly starter if that does no good. Is your starter solenoid a square headed one or is it all round? If round thats the easy one made by holmes and you can get it or parts from any truck shop. If it's the other one, she's a harder one to come by and mysewell just replace completely from my experience.... hope this info helps. Would write up more but I have to be to work in 4 hours and still haven't slept.

 

[rmgill]

I would suspect batteries first. Norm's M818 would click. It had 3 bad batteries with shorted cells so they wouldn't take a decent charge. With 2 good batteries it started right up. There can be issues with the Relay box on the firewall, but I'd suspect batteries first.

What's decent voltage?

 

[poppop]

Sounds like bad batts or a bad connection. A bad connection would make the guauges act funny. Could be the ground.

 

[Boosted_Nelson_Inc.]

I've read in a few other posts that PCB issues could cause the gauge problems, and it seems to me that a running M931 should be putting out enough power to slave start an M818 (Battery-generator indicator read in the green while M931 was connected). I think the starter was all round, but I forgot to take more pics so I can't check.

It's probably not an electrical issue anyway, because the more I think about it, the more I think the motor may be locked up.

1st When trying to pull start, every time I eased off the clutch, it looked like the rear tires were stopping and just skidding on the ice.
2nd There was a bit of coolant on the block on the right/passenger side of the forward cylinder head

This leads me to believe I may have a blown headgasket and a cylinder or two full of coolant. I just hope we didn't bend any rods trying to pull start it, if that is the problem.

 

[jwaller]

if you are worried about the low voltage open the manual valve on the fuel cutoff solenoid and it will pull start even without batteries. if you do have water or pooled fuel in a cylinder then you are going to have to pull an injector to get it to turn over.

how fast did you go and what gear did you use to pull it?

about 10mph and 3rd gear should do nicely. if you then slide the tires on solid ground then yes you defiantly have an engine problem.

 

[dlawbrey]

If you screw in the screw on the solenoid on top of the injector pump and pull start it you will need absolutely no voltage to start it. Fuel, oxygen and compression is all it takes. If it starts the only way to kill it will be to either screw it back or to put it in high gear and choke it down which is totally at your own risk.

 

[Mark3395]

I had to screw in the screw on that solenoid... I guess it buypasses the electric shutoff... to pull start my 817 at Camp Dodge. It started in just a few yards.

Problem now is that the starter is a Neville with a round solenoid. It doesn't look like the drawings in the manual, and the wiring seems different. Somebody had worked on it and the wiring wasn't fully replaced. I'll try to check line numbers today but probably need to take a photo of a similar starter on another 5T.

The TI that came with the truck noted that the Protective Control Unit needed to be replaced and I did that. Get no clicking at the solenoid and when I hit the master power switch I get about 10 seconds of buzzer noise before it stops. That's only started since I got the PCU installed.

I agree with your assessment that you've got a headgasket leak. I pulled my 817 with a Tahoe to start it.

 

[Boosted_Nelson_Inc.]

Update

It's finally getting warm enough for me to start working on the 818. Today I pulled the fan so I could get to the balancer on the crank. Now I know that the motor isn't locked up, because it turns over manually. Now I'm wondering about the starter or PCB again. It still just clicks. Voltmeter reads in the yellow, but the next time my deuce is running I'll slave the 2 together and see what happens.

 

[dm22630]

Why dont you just take the two good batteries out of your deuce & put them in the 818?? All you need it two batts to start the truck anyway. Take the 4 "bad" ones completely out.



Also....

Are you sure that no one pulled the "engine stop"? If they did, 5tons are NOT like deuces, you have to manually push the lever back into place on the injector pump, otherwise it will never start.

Keep us updated!

 

[Boosted_Nelson_Inc.]

It runs

I guess we really just needed dry pavement to pull start it (grass and icy roads won't do the job). Started right away and runs fine except for the throttle sticking a bit. For the first couple minutes it was running it didn't build any air pressure, but as I started backing down the road to the house it started building up, so I'm not really sure what that was about. The buzzer never went off even at 120 p.s.i. and the brakes are definitely good. Power steering is nice to have. Before the PCB was twitchy and you'd have to flip the power on and off a few time to get the gauges working, but after I shut the 818 down and tried to restart it under its own power, I got nothing at all. So I think the PCB is completely dead. Everything seems to work otherwise. The only thing I know is wrong is a front turn signal is out and I need to sew the top back together with fishing line, so I can replace the little tarp that's on it. Then I can keep animals from sleeping on the drivers seat.

Now I need to find a PCB for it, or instructions to rebuild the PCB. I searched the net for a while and can't find anyone selling one for an 809 series truck.

 

[dm22630]

PM Sent

 

[groundog]

had the same problem---re-placed the main pwer switch on the dash---works fine