HMMWV Bill in Washington State...Testimony help needed

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JEB

Member
53
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Location
Colbert, WA
The bill sponsored by my state senators up for consideration. I've been asked to testify.

-Does anyone have a list of which states allow HMMWVs on the road?

-Aside from dispelling some of the myths about the vehicle (weight, pollution, etc, )
does anyone have some salient points they would like to make?

-Is there anyone else in the State who would like to testify? I still have not reached MVPA or anyone else.

It happens Monday, so any help would be appreciated.
 

tage

Member
663
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Location
LOS ANGELES / CALIFORNIA
What are you going to say? That they're not that stable on and offroad? You can loose a spindle nut and a whole 200lbs tire assembly can go through a car killing a family. No crush zones, Roll bar, or safety side protection? No bumpers, cheesy horn, nor antilock brakes that can snap a shaft If locked up and render the brake useless? The engines aren't EPA certified Ie no emissions equipment. oh and they only go like 55 comfortably without winding the the engine up.

BTW what are testifying as? Expert in? A hmmwv owner will be seen as biased.
 

JEB

Member
53
3
8
Location
Colbert, WA
I see you'll be testifying for the state!

I'm not a HMMWV owner.
I'll just refute some of the misconceptions the woman at the State Patrol daid.
The engines are basically GM units that did pass EPA tests, the suspension isn't different than the ones in the civil
H1.

They were safe enough for the DoD to put its soldiers in. And they did test them extensively, especially after the M151 problems.

No crash zones, no air bags, but neither did my CJ which is welcomed on the road in every state. I won't even mention Model Ts or my 1914 roadster.

As far as a wheel coming off, the same can be said for any logging truck or red neck pickup.
 

tage

Member
663
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Location
LOS ANGELES / CALIFORNIA
ha not quite! Just playing a little devils advocate. I hate reach by government officials that try to set up "legacy".

Good rebuttal. Just do what they do in some states. Add bumpers/mud flaps, add a diesel catalytic converter.... OR does opacity anyways so emissions is a moot point anyways. look at the 30 year rule for vehicles to be exempt. That's how they get all those gray market cars in the US.

You should spend your time talking to your senators on that new mag ban instead of hmmwv's. 5 round capacity, and only can buy 20 rounds every month. Yeah that's not constitutional...


This reminds me. I need to call my congressman again. SOB has been ignoring my calls....
 
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DREDnot

Active member
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Phoenix, AZ
As far as a wheel coming off, the same can be said for any logging truck or red neck pickup.
Crazy story...three weeks ago driving into Needles on my way to Yermo to pick up my M998, we saw a big ol tire fly down the off ramp and through the intersection 100 feet in front of us. New-ish pickup grinding to a halt just up the ramp. Noticed this on a lot of the HMMWVs there...
20181226_121147.jpg
 

springer1981

New member
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Location
Maine
I see you'll be testifying for the state!
I'm not a HMMWV owner.
I'll just refute some of the misconceptions the woman at the State Patrol daid.
The engines are basically GM units that did pass EPA tests, the suspension isn't different than the ones in the civil
H1.
They were safe enough for the DoD to put its soldiers in. And they did test them extensively, especially after the M151 problems.
No crash zones, no air bags, but neither did my CJ which is welcomed on the road in every state. I won't even mention Model Ts or my 1914 roadster.
As far as a wheel coming off, the same can be said for any logging truck or red neck pickup.
I just purchased one that was registered in 2 states prior to mine. I am getting the previous registration from the prior owner. I will be attempting to register the vehicle next week.

My plan is to bring in the bill of sale and the prior registration that lists the vehicle as a "1992 AM General M998". I hope that is the extent of what I'll need.

Now I also have a backup plan and this is why I am posting to this thread and your question. I don't know if your state has a similar law but here we can register a vehicle in several different categories. For passenger vehicles here we can do a normal registration, an Antique, a Street Rod or a custom vehicle.

Normal we all know. Antique is 25 years or older. It can't be modified or must be reasonably close to original (no blowers, 454 in a Model T, etc.). A Street Rod needs to be 1949 or earlier.

Here is my states definition of a Custom Vehicle.

§458-B. Custom vehiclesA custom vehicle may be registered in accordance with the provisions of this section. [2005, c. 321, §4 (NEW); 2005, c. 321, §6 (AFF).]
1. Registration fee. The fee for the custom vehicle registration plate is the regular motor vehicle registration fee required by section 501 and the excise tax required by Title 36, section 1482.
[ 2005, c. 321, §4 (NEW); 2005, c. 321, §6 (AFF) .]

2. Registration plates. The Secretary of State shall issue a registration certificate and a set of custom vehicle registration plates in a 3-number and 3-letter combination sequence to be used in lieu of regular registration plates.
[ 2005, c. 321, §4 (NEW); 2005, c. 321, §6 (AFF) .]

3. Application. An application for registration of a vehicle under this section must be accompanied by an affidavit that includes a statement indicating the year and make that the body of the custom vehicle resembles and that the vehicle is garaged or maintained in the State.
[ 2005, c. 321, §4 (NEW); 2005, c. 321, §6 (AFF) .]

4. Registration. The registration must indicate the year and make that the body of the custom vehicle resembles and must indicate the vehicle has been modified.
[ 2005, c. 321, §4 (NEW); 2005, c. 321, §6 (AFF) .]

5. Vanity plates. The Secretary of State may issue vanity plates in accordance with section 453 and may not duplicate vanity plates issued in another class of plate.
[ 2005, c. 321, §4 (NEW); 2005, c. 321, §6 (AFF) .]

6. Weight limit. A custom vehicle registration plate may be issued for a motor vehicle that does not exceed 10,000 pounds.
[ 2011, c. 139, §2 (AMD) .]

7. Inspection. A custom vehicle is subject to the inspection requirements of section 1751, except that the Chief of the State Police may provide certain exemptions for custom vehicles pursuant to section 1769.



The Affidavit has to be completed and carried with the registration. Here is what it says...

Custom Vehicle: A motor vehicle at least 25 years old and of a model year after 1948, or a motor vehicle that was manufactured toresemble a motor vehicle that is at least 25 years old and of a model year after 1948; which has been altered from the manufacturer’soriginal design or has a body constructed from non-original material.
https://www.maine.gov/sos/bmv/forms/MV-65-AQ Affidavit fillable.pdf

The civilian "Hummer H1" was released to the public March 14 1992.

Based on the current registration laws, I believe my 1992 AM General is a Custom Vehicle that is based on the 1992 Hummer H1. If it meets the state inspection requirements then it meets the laws of the state.

You might check to see if your state already has something on the books that would allow it to be registered in a similar manner. Maybe you can apply that logic to your argument. It doesn't apply to all Humvee's here but mine meets the age requirements.

In the case of the original H1 there are no differences in technology, safety and design that I am aware of.
 

Retiredwarhorses

Active member
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Brentwood, Calif
The bill sponsored by my state senators up for consideration. I've been asked to testify.

-Does anyone have a list of which states allow HMMWVs on the road?

-Aside from dispelling some of the myths about the vehicle (weight, pollution, etc, )
does anyone have some salient points they would like to make?

-Is there anyone else in the State who would like to testify? I still have not reached MVPA or anyone else.

It happens Monday, so any help would be appreciated.
i would have ready

MIL-STD-1180B this is the military to FMVSS document.

look at Idaho House Bill 506 passed last year and SB645 from Oregon


i work on all 6.2, 6.5NA and 6.5TD motors in both military and civilian trucks, there is NO SMOG devices to speak of that are really that much different then mil application, Heck, A2’s have catalytic converters same as Civilian H1.
i would press for at minimum a 25yrs or older as historical plate, while not the best option, it’s worked in many states.
A HMMWV is identical to a 92-93 Hummer H1....
every state seems to follow the same BS excuse...FMVSS, Smog Compliance and short VIN.
-I see FMVSS as mute based on mil-std-1180B
-smog is horse manure because this same motor is used in millions of trucks and they have no issue titling M1009’s and m1008’s.
-short vin is BS cuz they can easily issue a new vin at Highway patrol office.

truck has everything but backup lights...and they could make that a requirement.
 

springer1981

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Maine
Additional information comparing H1 and HMMWV design...

The two share the same parking brake, transfer case, and transmission shift levers, although a civilian Hummer receives vinyl-covered, padded interior panels to gussy it up a bit. The parking brake lever is military-inspired and offers a very positive engagement. Adjusting the parking brake is done by simply turning the knob at the top. All Hummers have full-time four-wheel drive, so the positions in both versions are marked H (High), HL (High Loc), N (neutral), and L (Low-Loc). Interestingly, there is no Park position on the military versions, and we’re told the civilian Hummers are the first to have Park. In order to start any Hummer without a Park position, it’s necessary to set the parking brake and shift the tranny into Neutral. No manuals are available in either version.

Everything under the hood is pretty much the same when comparing the civilian and military 6.2L diesel engines. However, there are a few notable exceptions. Military Hummers don’t have air conditioning, run on a 24-volt electrical system, and have a giant generator hanging off the engine. For those equipped with a central tire-inflation system (optional on both the civilian and the military Hummers), the compressor and solenoids are located on the driver-side fenderwell. Civilians have the option of a GM 6.5L diesel, a 6.5L turbodiesel, or a 5.7L gas engine.

The fiberglass hoods are interchangeable between the two versions, right down to the mounting pad for the blackout light (the blackout light is absent on the civilian Hummer, of course). The military version has different parking and taillights, and the lighting system actually has two blackout stages. The first stage leaves the lower portion of the two parking lights and taillights illuminated, while the full blackout only illuminates a single small light on the front that’s about the strength of a small flashlight bulb. This light enables the driver to see about 40 feet ahead of the truck with the aid of military-spec night-vision goggles.

The military uses several different bodies on the Hummer, including an ambulance, a light-duty cargo carrier, a light-duty passenger carrier, and a heavy-duty cargo carrier. Civilian models are also available in a variety of styles, including a two- or four-door hardtop, a two- or four-door soft top, and a four-door wagon. Both military and civilian Hummers have a 1-1/4-ton rating.

Both styles use the same suspension and drivetrain designs. The suspension is independent front and rear and sprung with coils at each wheel, which yields an impressive 16 inches of ground clearance in the center of the vehicle. However, we noted wheel travel is limited, especially when compared to conventional straight-axle designs. The Hummer features 1.92:1 gear reduction units at each wheel, which is technology borrowed from heavy-duty trucks. By using these reduction units at the extreme end of the driveline, it’s possible to use smaller and lighter components throughout the rest of the drivetrain. Also, instead of having the brakes at each wheel like most vehicles, the Hummer’s all-disc brakes are located at the end of the differential assembly on the upper portion of the axleshafts. The only difference between the two models is different spring rates and shock valving, which also vary according to the body.

It seems as it the major difference is interior creature comforts and that's about it. Note they both have the same standard safety features as well, like 3 point seat belt, windshield wipers, heat and defroster, mirrors etc.

Source
http://www.fourwheeler.com/project-vehicles/military-vs-civilian-hummers/
 

simp5782

I'm the dude, man!
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I wish they had done something along the lines of this wording for the data plates on every military truck not just the oshkosh stuff.
 

Attachments

undysworld

Member
490
3
18
Location
Blue Mounds, WI
The bill sponsored by my state senators up for consideration. I've been asked to testify.

-Does anyone have a list of which states allow HMMWVs on the road?

-Aside from dispelling some of the myths about the vehicle (weight, pollution, etc, )
does anyone have some salient points they would like to make?

-Is there anyone else in the State who would like to testify? I still have not reached MVPA or anyone else.

It happens Monday, so any help would be appreciated.
Wisconsin allows HMMWVs to register, and for only $25 for lifetime registration. [s.341.266(1)(am)3, Wis. Stats.]
MIL STD 1180B has a chart in it, which specifies that military vehicles have to meet MIL STD equipment standards, AND most importantly, it lists the equivalent FMVSS requirements. This means that military vehicles have to meet the exact same safety equipment requirements as civilian vehicles - only they have a different name.
The MIL STD 1180B has already been accepted by a Wis. Appeal court as proving FMVSS compliance.
Military vehicles are exempted from FMVSS compliance by Title 49 US Code. But being exempted doesn't mean preclude meeting the equivalent standards (MIL STD), they do.
 

tage

Member
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LOS ANGELES / CALIFORNIA
$25 lifetime!?
Az just implemented 32$ a year tax to pay for highway cops pensions.

I came here to say AZ gave me a 6 digit vin that was on the truck. Only needed state assigned if they couldn't find two of the matching vins. I paid extra for a third party to "Inspect / verify " my vin. Lol
 

BSCo

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Seattle
JEB, I am in WA state (Seattle) with a 1988 HMMWV. Registered with no issues last year. Olympia actually sent me an email with what I needed to do when I called them for clarification. Curious, what exactly are you trying to accomplish with the bill? DOL used my SF97 and Bill of Sale.
 

cwc

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Carrollton, KY
The bill is SB 5417. It is on the agenda for the Senate Transportation Committee public hearing. On the Washington State Legislature homepage (leg.wa.gov), select 1/28/2019 in the "Scheduled hearings and floor sessions" dropdown, then scroll down to Transportation (S). There is a link to the agenda.

Here is the bill and the Senate Bill Report:

View attachment SB 5417.pdf

View attachment 5417 Senate Bill Report.pdf
 

cwc

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Carrollton, KY
The definition of "Military Surplus Vehicle" in SB 5417 is very similar to the definition in the new KY law, so much so that it appears to have used the KY law as a basis. Regarding "federally mandated requirements set forth in 49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.7", it would be more proper to call this section of the CFR an "exemption" than a "requirement", but I suppose it works. In any event, KY titles and licenses Surplus Military Vehicles with no usage restrictions. Here is the new KY law with relevant sections highlighted and some extraneous information deleted. Note also the KAR (administrative regulation) attached at the end, which gives some details on the application of the law. The full official versions can easily be pulled up online by searching KRS or KAR and the number.

View attachment KY Military Surplus Vehicle Law.pdf
 

JEB

Member
53
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Location
Colbert, WA
BSCo...
I called the county and Olympia. Both said no way. The woman at the WSP was particularly unhelpful listing the bogus concerns about the type. See my comments above.

The Dept of Licencing was better but resent I got from responses back.
 
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