Horsepower Requirements for fan?

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MarcusOReallyus

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Not if they are wired in series. One fails they both fail. I think. You may just give all 24 volts to one if the other fails.

You got it right the first time, sir. If one fails, they are both out. Just like the old-fashioned Christmas light strings. If one blows, they are all out. The only way to find the failed bulb is to start at one end and replace one bulb at a time.

To get any redundancy from two fans they must be wired in parallel.
 

MarcusOReallyus

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I plan on designing, fabricating, and installing A new, stronger and larger rear battery tray to support at least 2 and maybe 3 batteries to supply mega 24-volt amperage capacity.
Have you considered using a large cap to provide for sudden amp draws? Like the megawatt audio amp freaks use? It will smooth things out for your radio, too.


This new tray will be supported from the frame instead of the inner fender.

Hmmm. Have you considered vibration? I'm just thinking out loud here.... The fender mounting probably provides some degree of vibration isolation for the battery. A rigid frame mount would probably transmit more of that battery wrecking stuff. Maybe some rubber mounting points of some kind? Or a rubber pad between the support legs and the frame? Or maybe a larger pad under the batteries?


All aftermarket accessories will be 24-volt and powered from this battery bank. Inverter, fridge, ham radio, etc will all be 24-volt wired through a BlueSea panel.
Ahhhh, Blue Sea! Good stuff! You are going quality! (y)
 
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Sharecropper

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Have you considered using a large cap to provide for sudden amp draws? Like the megawatt audio amp freaks use? It will smooth things out for your radio, too.





Hmmm. Have you considered vibration? I'm just thinking out loud here.... The fender mounting probably provides some degree of vibration isolation for the battery. A rigid frame mount would probably transmit more of that battery wrecking stuff. Maybe some rubber mounting points of some kind? Or a rubber pad between the support legs and the frame? Or maybe a larger pad under the batteries?




Ahhhh, Blue Sea! Good stuff! You are going quality! (y)
Marcus - regarding the new design battery tray, yes I plan to include thick rubber isolation pads between the support legs and frame. Similar to a rubber transmission mount. In fact I may even explore using a couple of new transmission mounts so the new design will be easily duplicated for other SS members who might want to do the same upgrade.
Regarding the possible use of a capacitor to start the fan, I don’t think it will be necessary, as 11 amps is not much. Also I believe the Flex-A-Lite fan may have a soft-start feature built in to it. Just have to wait and see.
Regarding Blue Sea, I’m actually going to wire 2 of the new distribution panels- 1 for 24-volt accessories and another for 12-volt accessories.
I love this stuff.
 

shotty

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Not if they are wired in series. One fails they both fail. I think. You may just give all 24 volts to one if the other fails.
Never said mine were wired in series, just that it would be possible to do it. Much like rubbing a bunch of 12v glow plugs off a 24v system via a huge resistor. Possible but not without its shortcomings.
 

Curtisje

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Never said mine were wired in series, just that it would be possible to do it. Much like rubbing a bunch of 12v glow plugs off a 24v system via a huge resistor. Possible but not without its shortcomings.
But your post would certainly lead others to believe that that is what you did.
 

MarcusOReallyus

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Marcus - regarding the new design battery tray, yes I plan to include thick rubber isolation pads between the support legs and frame. Similar to a rubber transmission mount. In fact I may even explore using a couple of new transmission mounts so the new design will be easily duplicated for other SS members who might want to do the same upgrade.
Cool beans.

Regarding the possible use of a capacitor to start the fan, I don’t think it will be necessary, as 11 amps is not much. Also I believe the Flex-A-Lite fan may have a soft-start feature built in to it. Just have to wait and see.

Oh,, I wasn't thinking of the fan particularly, just in general once you get all the extra doo-dads installed.


Regarding Blue Sea, I’m actually going to wire 2 of the new distribution panels- 1 for 24-volt accessories and another for 12-volt accessories.
I love this stuff.
Yes, it's top notch.
 

Curtisje

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When I begin to reinstall the front clip after my engine/tranny/TC has been installed, I plan on designing, fabricating, and installing A new, stronger and larger rear battery tray to support at least 2 and maybe 3 batteries to supply mega 24-volt amperage capacity. This new tray will be supported from the frame instead of the inner fender. All aftermarket accessories will be 24-volt and powered from this battery bank. Inverter, fridge, ham radio, etc will all be 24-volt wired through a BlueSea panel. The front battery will remain 12-volt and configured as OEM and charged from the driver’s side alternator as originally designed.
I don't see how this will work. Your 24v accessories don't just pull from the rear battery, they pull from both 12v batteries in order to get 24v. This I am sure you know, I'm just talking my way through this.

A front battery with say 1000CCA and a rear battery with 1000CCA gets you 1000CCA of 24 volts. Adding more batteries to the rear will draw equally across those batteries but won't give you more 24v power unless you match that at the front.

I'm probably missing something here. I would like to understand your plan.
 

Sharecropper

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I don't see how this will work. Your 24v accessories don't just pull from the rear battery, they pull from both 12v batteries in order to get 24v. This I am sure you know, I'm just talking my way through this.

A front battery with say 1000CCA and a rear battery with 1000CCA gets you 1000CCA of 24 volts. Adding more batteries to the rear will draw equally across those batteries but won't give you more 24v power unless you match that at the front.

I'm probably missing something here. I would like to understand your plan.
Let me get into it after my new engine, tranny, and TC have been installed and I will photo document everything in my rebuild thread. That’s when I will be setting up the system. But for your information, the 24-volt Blue Sea panel will be fed from the 24-volt buss bar on the firewall right behind the rear battery. The panel will also be grounded to the 24-volt ground bar at the same location. Stick with me. You will see.
 

Curtisje

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Let me get into it after my new engine, tranny, and TC have been installed and I will photo document everything in my rebuild thread. That’s when I will be setting up the system. But for your information, the 24-volt Blue Sea panel will be fed from the 24-volt buss bar on the firewall right behind the rear battery. The panel will also be grounded to the 24-volt ground bar at the same location. Stick with me. You will see.
All I'm getting at is you need the same amount of 12v batteries parallel in front and rear to have a more robust 24v system. One 12v in the front charged by the drivers side alt and three 12v in the rear charged off the passenger side alt doesn't equal more 24v power.
 

shotty

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I think he's planning on running two seorrate systems. One 12v battery for the truck stuff and two 12v batteries wired for 24v for accessories. The singular 12v battery for the truck won't be involved in the 24v system like it is from the factory
 

Curtisje

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I think he's planning on running two seorrate systems. One 12v battery for the truck stuff and two 12v batteries wired for 24v for accessories. The singular 12v battery for the truck won't be involved in the 24v system like it is from the factory
That will be interesting. Thanks.
 

Curtisje

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Food for thought when you get to your electrical planning Sharecropper.

 

frank8003

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If all pulleys aligned properly and tension is set correct than just once use a faint mist of this stuff or similiar on it and no more slip squeal. The squeal is damage occourring and is unwanted. There is many different flavors of this stuff, many much less expensive but it works. 686226800732.jpg If the belts have a "automatic" tensioner than that part is suspect. They get worn and fail slowly.
 
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MarcusOReallyus

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All I'm getting at is you need the same amount of 12v batteries parallel in front and rear to have a more robust 24v system. One 12v in the front charged by the drivers side alt and three 12v in the rear charged off the passenger side alt doesn't equal more 24v power.

I'm in agreement. Unless some of the rear is going to power some isolated ground 12v units, I don't see this working.
 

Sharecropper

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Guys, the 24-volts at the buss bar is produced by 2 12-volt batteries wired together in Series. For the back battery, more than 1 battery can be wired together in Parallel to maintain 12-volts while increasing the amperage by the sum of the Parallel batteries. As long as the output to the buss bar remains 24-volt, there will be no issues. This will keep the hybrid system as originally designed but increase the amperage bank. You can wire 100 12-volt batteries together in Parallel and you still will only have 12-volts, but the amperage bank will be the sum of the 100 batteries.
 

MarcusOReallyus

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Guys, the 24-volts at the buss bar is produced by 2 12-volt batteries wired together in Series. For the back battery, more than 1 battery can be wired together in Parallel to maintain 12-volts

Good so far.

while increasing the amperage by the sum of the Parallel batteries.
Nope. Doesn't work that way. You aren't accounting for the internal resistance of the batteries. When you connect batteries in parallel they offer a lower resistance than the one battery. Good so far. But they are in series with the battery up front. This battery does NOT have batteries in parallel, and will offer a higher resistance than the battery bank in the rear. This will limit your current flow in the circuit.



You can wire 100 12-volt batteries together in Parallel and you still will only have 12-volts, but the amperage bank will be the sum of the 100 batteries.
Yes, but put that massive battery bank in SERIES with a single 12v lawnmower battery and you will get no more amperage than you would have out of two lawnmower batteries in series. You will have wasted all that money. You won't be able to use the amperage that the battery bank can produce.

The only thing this will accomplish is to keep the alternator for the massive bank lazily idling along, while the other alternator desperately tries to keep up.


I hope I'm not coming across as arrogant or condescending here, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding. This is not going to work. You are trying to create a massively mismatched battery, something that every engineer knows is A Very Bad Thing.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but better now than after you have spent the time and money.

 
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Sharecropper

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Good so far.



Nope. Doesn't work that way. You aren't accounting for the internal resistance of the batteries. When you connect batteries in parallel they offer a lower resistance than the one battery. Good so far. But they are in series with the battery up front. This battery does NOT have batteries in parallel, and will offer a higher resistance than the battery bank in the rear. This will limit your current flow in the circuit.





Yes, but put that massive battery bank in SERIES with a single 12v lawnmower battery and you will get no more amperage than you would have out of two lawnmower batteries in series. You will have wasted all that money. You won't be able to use the amperage that the battery bank can produce.

The only thing this will accomplish is to keep the alternator for the massive bank lazily idling along, while the other alternator desperately tries to keep up.


I hope I'm not coming across as arrogant or condescending here, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding. This is not going to work. You are trying to create a massively mismatched battery, something that every engineer knows is A Very Bad Thing.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but better now than after you have spent the time and money.

Well, I guess my bubble has burst. I sure did want to increase battery and amperage storage. I wish there was some way to accomplish this, but maybe not.
I stand corrected and appreciate the lesson.
 

Curtisje

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Well, I guess my bubble has burst. I sure did want to increase battery and amperage storage. I wish there was some way to accomplish this, but maybe not.
I stand corrected and appreciate the lesson.
I had 2 batteries mounted in each battery tray on my M1008. It worked great until the fender started to break at the battery tray mounts. I moved them to the bed after that, just under my toolbox. My truck is now in pieces, like yours, being rebuilt. I plan on putting 6 or 8 batteries in it but haven't calculated what I will actually need yet. 4 batteries was quite a lot of power and reserve. I run a 3000 watt 24v inverter for power tools and such.

I think you've got plenty of options for setting this up and getting what you want out of it.
 

Sharecropper

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I had 2 batteries mounted in each battery tray on my M1008. It worked great until the fender started to break at the battery tray mounts. I moved them to the bed after that, just under my toolbox. My truck is now in pieces, like yours, being rebuilt. I plan on putting 6 or 8 batteries in it but haven't calculated what I will actually need yet. 4 batteries was quite a lot of power and reserve. I run a 3000 watt 24v inverter for power tools and such.

I think you've got plenty of options for setting this up and getting what you want out of it.
I’d sure like to know what those options are. Any advice or suggestions you can provide will be appreciated.
 
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