Hydraulic Assit Steering- Another Idea Never Attempted

[gimpyrobb]

Tom was asking Country that question. The pics show a pump and the gear to spin, it, but not the bracket that will let you bolt it to the motor.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Oh got ya

I don't think I'm gonna use a 5 ton pump anyway. There are better cheaper pumps out there then paying $225 for pump plus another $200 for a gear

 

[RHudson85]

This is just my OPINION. I DO NOT believe that the torque generator going on a M35A2 is a good idea UNLESS you are running stock tires. If you are running the big tires it obviously takes much more force to get them to turn, the torque generator can provide that with ease. However, I think the problem is that over time the steering box will give up, it is meant to turn 40" tires that are extremely narrow and have much less surface contact with the road.

I have a hydraulic assist crossover steering setup on my M35A2 running 53" tires. It works well and I am very happy with the way it came out. If you are interested I will post some pics in the morning when I can get them off my phone onto the computer.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Yes that would be great I'd like to see how you control the cylinder and maybe a lead on where you got the parts

 

[RHudson85]

Here are the pics. Since these were taken, I have removed the rear track bar and bulked up the front one some more. Most of the components are PSC. I think I saw something in this thread about possiblity of full hydraulic. DO NOT DO IT, sure it will be easy to turn, but take it out on the road people behind you will think your hammered drunk. Not to mention the safety hazard of having no mechanical connection. Thats how my set up originally was and why the builder even let it leave his shop like that is beyond me.

 

[Hainebd]

Yes please post pictures. I agree with the assists over taxting the steering box but also not giving all the help you need. There are still plenty of power steering boxes out there and pumps to boot. I think it is the price being charged for the setup. Pump $200, box $500, miss $200. That is under a grand and markup is needed but I think it is excessive. When I do mine I am posting all info from parts numbers to bracket prints and hose info. This site is a place to share info and experances not make a buck.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

That's the ticket right there.... If you were going air bag suspension....

 

[welldigger]

Here are the pics. Since these were taken, I have removed the rear track bar and bulked up the front one some more. Most of the components are PSC. I think I saw something in this thread about possiblity of full hydraulic. DO NOT DO IT, sure it will be easy to turn, but take it out on the road people behind you will think your hammered drunk. Not to mention the safety hazard of having no mechanical connection. Thats how my set up originally was and why the builder even let it leave his shop like that is beyond me.

That is an awesome set up. I'd love to know more about it.

 

[m-35tom]

Yes please post pictures. I agree with the assists over taxting the steering box but also not giving all the help you need. There are still plenty of power steering boxes out there and pumps to boot. I think it is the price being charged for the setup. Pump $200, box $500, miss $200. That is under a grand and markup is needed but I think it is excessive. When I do mine I am posting all info from parts numbers to bracket prints and hose info. This site is a place to share info and experances not make a buck.

yes, you must be right, my time and investment of over $40,000 is just not worth anything! perhaps someone will just give you one.

 

[RHudson85]

That is an awesome set up. I'd love to know more about it.

Ill post a pic of the steering the truck came with so you can see the trash I had to work with.

The new setup is as follows:

GM 1 ton box tapped by PSC for hydro assist mounted to a bracket that I fabbed up (pic below). The pitman arm was purchased for the splines, cut, dropped and fabbed out of 1" flatbar beveled and welded with numerous passes so its solid all the way through. This was a trial and error process to get the travel just right and probably the 2nd hardest thing to make. The crossmember for the radiator had to be notched out for the stering shaft.

The ram is a 3" PSC, normal stroke is 9" but due to the air bag perches and other suspension components, the max stroke I was able to get was 8". PSC set the travel for me so I would not tear up the steering box. I have it set up so that the ram bottoms out just before the steering box does, and by just before I am talking about less than an 1/8 turn of the steering wheel.

The pump I believe is the PSC saginaw one.

The cooler is a Derale that is overkill but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

The sway bar is made by Schroeder. I had to get a set of arms so I would have the spline pattern, the old arms were cut off and new arms welded to the splines. The truck came with 1/2" heims on the sway bar arms that were not even set up right and were being pulled on, I believe I snapped 2 of them.

Lastly the track bar which was by far the hardest part, not only did it have to be at the same angle as the drag link, but since the truck is on bags and it drops ~6" I had to make sure that the angle of the track bar was the same at both the raised and lowered positions. Also since the truck is on bags, the track bar is all that keeps the truck centered over the axle I had to make the bracket as strong as I could (pic below).

Many dbouted that the 3" ram being driven by the 1 ton box would not work and that it would not be fast enough. The only time I notice even a little is in parking lots when I am turning the wheel fast. They also said that the 1 ton box was not sufficient for a 2 1/2 ton truck. I can tell you in confidence that the box is only there for a mechanical connection and to keep the ram in check. The ram by itself puts out so much force that the steering box hardly sees anything.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

So what you are saying is you could use a f-350 or Chevy or dodge 3500 steering box asking as it could be tapped for ram assist? If this is possibly that would hugely open up available boxes for use on the deuce.

I'm out to dinner with my wife right now but I have some leads on other boxes such as the ross I will post later.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

So what you are saying is you could use a f-350 or Chevy or dodge 3500 steering box asking as it could be tapped for ram assist? If this is possibly that would hugely open up available boxes for use on the deuce. Even having a spring set up why couldn't you use a steering setup like this. Heavy duty pick up trucks do all the time.

I'm out to dinner with my wife right now but I have some leads on other boxes such as the ross I will post later.

 

[rustystud]

RHudson85, do you have any close-up pictures of the modified steering gear ? If you do could you please post them.
On a separate note, does anyone know of a torque generator that has ports to feed an auxiliary ram assist ?

 

[patracy]

RHudson85, do you have any close-up pictures of the modified steering gear ? If you do could you please post them.
On a separate note, does anyone know of a torque generator that has ports to feed an auxiliary ram assist ?

I will eyeball the one I have for sale to see if it has any additional ports or bosses that could be tapped for one.

 

[rustystud]

I will eyeball the one I have for sale to see if it has any additional ports or bosses that could be tapped for one.

Thanks patracy. I think if you use a torque generator that also uses a ram on the tie-rod you would eliminate the added stress to the old steering gear. A win win situation !

 

[rustystud]

yes, you must be right, my time and investment of over $40,000 is just not worth anything! perhaps someone will just give you one.

Didn't you get this idea from gringeltaube ? He installed one in 2005, Ross Hf54 gear, 5 ton pump, all of that. You also mentioned that the gamma goat steering columns would work just fine and that TNJ was selling them for only $10.00 at the time.
I know that you spent a lot of time and a small fortune on the 3053 conversion, which I want to buy ( after Christmas though ) but the steering gear set-up ? I don't want a fight, just asking.

 

[JasonS]

Didn't you get this idea from gringeltaube ? He installed one in 2005, Ross Hf54 gear, 5 ton pump, all of that. You also mentioned that the gamma goat steering columns would work just fine and that TNJ was selling them for only $10.00 at the time.
I know that you spent a lot of time and a small fortune on the 3053 conversion, which I want to buy ( after Christmas though ) but the steering gear set-up ? I don't want a fight, just asking.

No, Tom's design uses the 710 box and appears to have a custom pitman arm and steering column.

 

[m-35tom]

Thanks patracy. I think if you use a torque generator that also uses a ram on the tie-rod you would eliminate the added stress to the old steering gear. A win win situation !

then it would not be a torque generator, it would be a control valve. there used to be a steering box that looked exactly like the stock one but had a valve with 4 ports on it right at the top of the box. I have only ever seen one and it was NOS, don't know what it was made to fit, but it was at a mil surplus place.

 

[patracy]

Thanks patracy. I think if you use a torque generator that also uses a ram on the tie-rod you would eliminate the added stress to the old steering gear. A win win situation !

Sorry, no extra ports or bosses.

 

[m-35tom]

Didn't you get this idea from gringeltaube ? He installed one in 2005, Ross Hf54 gear, 5 ton pump, all of that. You also mentioned that the gamma goat steering columns would work just fine and that TNJ was selling them for only $10.00 at the time.
I know that you spent a lot of time and a small fortune on the 3053 conversion, which I want to buy ( after Christmas though ) but the steering gear set-up ? I don't want a fight, just asking.

just sarcasm! the first power steering I built was in 1997 and used a 710, the only box I have ever found that will just barely fit on the outside of the frame. I know the hf54 has been used quite a bit, but I have never been a fan because of the linear control valve. very old school, everything newer has a rotary valve with an internal torque shaft to set the point where PS starts. there is a newer ross box, but I got one and it was a full inch thicker and the pitman arm would have to be custom made, more expense.
tom