• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

 

Hydraulic System Tips

aleigh

Well-known member
1,040
49
48
Location
Phoenix, AZ & Seattle, WA
I've mentioned some of this before in different threads but I thought I would summarize it here. There are a lot of great threads about the FMTV hydraulic system, but these are some less common tidbits.

-= Corrosion =-

My manifold and pump were badly corroded; the valves so bad that eventually they failed. I don't think I have seen a rebuild of a used SPX power pack yet where the pump was not corroded. It seems counter-intuitive that things immersed in oil rust, but this is very much the case. Unlike a hydraulic brake or clutch system in a car, the FMTV circuit is exposed to air through the reservoir vent. When the oil level drops or pressure changes, air will be drawn into the reservoir. Humidity in that air well condense on the walls of the tank and eventually into the fluid, where it will circulate.

The SPX power pack has a desiccant filter on it which is designed to dry the air entering the tank to prevent this problem. The thing about desiccant filters is they have a finite service life and once they are used up, wet air will be drawn in. Replace on a schedule and ensure you are using fluid with modern anti-corrosive properties.

-= Hose Length =-

If you encounter any kind of problem with the hydraulic system, odds are you are going to have to get into the manifold. Although the spool valves and pneumatic switches can be removed from the front and the filters from the top, the check valves come out the side. This, and anything to do with the hoses, basically requires removing the manifold from the truck.

The people built the truck gave the hoses exactly the right length and not a hair more. Consequently, to remove the hoses you have to get a wrench down into the gap from the side (above the fuel tank) or top. There is so little room to work here, the cab lift hoses are on elbows. It's terrible. It's just beyond terrible. And if you have to do any kind of trial and error testing you are going to be miserable.

The solution for me was to have hose extensions made. They are JIC fittings and the local hydraulic hose place took one look at it, and 20 minutes later I had 10 18" hoses and was $200 lighter. This is the best money I have ever spent on the truck. This gives enough slack that the manifold can be removed and sat on a ladder or whatever else is handy. To extend the air lines I went and got more DOT tubing and some female to female connectors from NAPA. I also replaced the connectors on the manifold with the QD style.

If you take the truck off road or anything like that where there is a risk you are going to have to work on things or patch things up, just do this now before you wish you had. You were warned...

-= Return Lines Are Common =-

This was my biggest AHA.

When something goes wrong with the system, such as a leak in a hose, the system can act surprisingly. For example, a hose cut on the tire crane will effect lifting the cab - sometimes. This was a real puzzler to me until I reviewed the schematics. It drove me crazy, why would it leak at one point and then not another? When working on the system it is important to understand that the return lines across all spool valves are tied together, plus the return lines (the T lines) for the pumps, and there are no check valves for the work circuits (suspension, tire, cab) in the manifold itself. There are in the cylinders depending on the circuit, but not in the manifold. Therefore the hoses are unprotected.

An example: If you remove the tire extend hose, set the spool valve to tire retract (tying extend to the return), and then seemingly unrelated try to lift the cab, you will spray fluid everywhere. If you set the tire valve to extend, nothing will come out. Personally I wish they had put one-way valves on the return lines (other than the T returns). The reason you might care about this is when you have a cable or fitting fail and you want the system to work without peeing itself. If you remember this though you can set the spool valve up right for the broken circuit to isolate the line. If you break both lines in one work circuit (like say you disconnect a ram for repairs) you are out of luck.

This also means that you can't just hook up one circuit and one pump. You have to hook up, at minimum, both pumps and 3 work circuit return lines and then set the spools properly.

Normally we think of the return line as being low pressure (after all it is free to flow and we are pumping into the high side). However resistance to the moving parts (like the tire hanging on the crane) will pressurize the return side which must hold fast to prevent the ram from dropping the load. In other words BOTH sides must hold good pressure.

Where this becomes a problem is when something on the return side wants to leak. On my truck, my hand pump eventually started leaking, and would spray fluid on the return side when load was applied to a ram. This was difficult to deal with in the field because unlike the other circuits there is no way to isolate the hand pump. Likewise a pressure failure in the power pack is going to have a similar result.

Consequently I have started carrying around a ziploc of JIC plugs. These are basically plugs with a flange and o-ring. Depending on your manifold part # you may have one already installed in the "suspension normal" plug. The plugs allow me to isolate failed lines or pumps by removing the manifold (now "easy" because I have slack, removing the hose and fitting, and plugging the circuits). If you carry enough you can remove everything except a pump circuit and the cab lift, for example.

-= Puffing is probably but maybe not bad =-

If your pump into an impossible load the power pack will vent fluid. This can happen during certain failure scenarios (like stuck check valves, etc). This is commonly taken as a sign that the seals are bad and the power pack must be rebuilt, but not necessarily. If your pack is not puffing when the hydraulics are otherwise operating normally (like when you lift a tire), it is fine. I suppose either accidentally or by design this is its version of high-pressure bypass. The manual pump has a relief valve on the high pressure side which ties to the low side. Which brings us to

-= The hand pump has a relief valve on the high pressure side which ties to the low side =-

What this means is that if the valve fails, when you pump on the high side it will equally (or partially?) put pressure into the return side. You thought it vented to air, right? I sure did. I guess despite a cat engine and a SPX power pack they decided this was their red line and it was not going to leak.

A failed bypass is not necessarily obvious but it will be obvious that the rams are not moving or generally fighting against themselves. And of course there is no way to isolate the hand pump at the side of the road unless you have taken the earlier advice.

Screen Shot 2017-12-21 at 5.01.03 PM.jpg20171220_121940.jpg20171219_153315.jpg
 
105
11
18
Location
Belgrade, Montana
Aleigh-

GREAT write up! ALL of our Acela Monterra's and FMTV mechanically reconditioned trucks get a rebuilt air over hydraulic pump ($250). We've found this to be the source of 90+% of the problems with hydraulic system. Next is O-rings on the manifold ("control panel"),and then O-rings inside the cab latch.

We sell the rebuilt pumps and O-ring kits for the manifold and cab latch on our online store.

Once rebuilt, the system is extremely reliable and works as intended. As with all surplus FMTVs the devil is in the rubber!

Thanks again for sharing!
 

Awesomeness

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
1,811
1,510
113
Location
Orlando, FL
The cab latch o-ring is "1-1/8 Inch I.D. X 1-3/8 Inch O.D. X 1/8 Inch Thick" and you can get it anywhere. National has it as #216. Oreilly's or napa or whatever will have it or equiv.

Everything you could want to know about rebuilding the power pack is here, including how to source the seals; https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?137274-FMTV-Air-Hydraulic-Unit-Repair
This isn't entirely correct. That o-ring "works", but is not the correct o-ring, and the correct one is a different material to withstand the red military hydraulic fluid. There is also a smaller o-ring around the nose of the piston that is non-standard.

I've also thoroughly read that entire thread, and even summarized it in my "common fixes" guide in my signature, but it doesn't contain any more useful info on any of the o-rings other than something like "take it to Parker and see if they can figure out the o-rings". So if FMTV Sales has a reasonably priced kit of the correct o-rings, I'd much rather just buy it than waste my time fishing for them.
 

deshet

Member
98
0
6
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
National O-ring 216 worked on my 1st LMTV; hopefully it will work on my second. I wish someone would sticky a parts guide. It took me several hours to find posts with the correct part number. I understand that some people are anal and want to only show the exact military part numbers but that isn't helpful for those that need help quick.

That seal leaking is extremely common and finding the part number should be easier.

Thanks
 

coachgeo

Well-known member
4,971
3,340
113
Location
North of Cincy OH
...I wish someone would sticky a parts guide. It took me several hours to find posts with the correct part number. I understand that some people are anal and want to only show the exact military part numbers but that isn't helpful for those that need help quick. ...
hmmm...... ahhhh...... just in case your not being facetious... do you mean the sticky at top of this forum that has been there for hmmm.. 2 years or so.... and the additional one in Awesomeness's signature line (one post above yours quoted)
 

Awesomeness

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
1,811
1,510
113
Location
Orlando, FL
I wish someone would sticky a parts guide. It took me several hours to find posts with the correct part number.
I did not have good results with the #216 o-ring. It's clearly much smaller than the groove it goes in. After the #216 started leaking I even put a back-up o-ring next to the #216 in an attempt to take up some of the gap. (A backup ring is a real thing, not just a second o-ring... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-up_ring ). That didn't work well either. So I intentionally have not offered it as a suggested fix, because I'm not convinced that it is yet.

If you've fixed your latch with something that you feel works, I suggest you write up what you've done in a new post. Not really any point to complaining that other people haven't done it for you.
 
Last edited:

deshet

Member
98
0
6
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
I did not have good results with the #216 o-ring. It's clearly much smaller than the groove it goes in. After the #216 started leaking I even put a back-up o-ring next to the #216 in an attempt to take up some of the gap. (A backup ring is a real thing, not just a second o-ring... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-up_ring ). That didn't work well either. So I intentionally have not offered it as a suggested fix, because I'm not convinced that it is yet.
If you've fixed your latch with something that you feel works, I suggest you write up what you've done in a new post. Not really any point to complaining that other people haven't done it for you.
Not complaining it just seems like a common problem. I made a post about the O-ring issue with a video reference nearly two years ago and figured out that someone combined or deleted some of my content when moving posts around. My problem is much more then the seal. I need a spring it is broken in two places. I appreciate the guide that you are making but even a * in your guide would probably save 100s of hours over time. ( (*) this seal has worked for some but seems small). It is unlikely to get multiply guides stuck to the top of the page.

Maybe you are a purest but with these trucks we sometimes have to settle for what works vs whats right especially when stuck on the side of the road.

Thanks
 

Awesomeness

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
1,811
1,510
113
Location
Orlando, FL
Not complaining it just seems like a common problem. I made a post about the O-ring issue with a video reference nearly two years ago and figured out that someone combined or deleted some of my content when moving posts around. My problem is much more then the seal. I need a spring it is broken in two places. I appreciate the guide that you are making but even a * in your guide would probably save 100s of hours over time. ( (*) this seal has worked for some but seems small). It is unlikely to get multiply guides stuck to the top of the page.

Maybe you are a purest but with these trucks we sometimes have to settle for what works vs whats right especially when stuck on the side of the road.

Thanks
My thought process was that it clearly wasn't an actual solution, and the "stuck on the side of the road" bandaid-fix of putting any o-ring on that kind of fits seems to go without saying (and is true of everything on these aging trucks... keeping an o-ring kit in the toolbox is smart). If anything, it almost seems like putting an entry in my guide saying that a #216 doesn't seem to work is more valuable. I'll consider it. One day I'd like to find the actual parts, and maybe somebody will beat me to it. There is a member that sells the seal kits for like $35.

As for the spring, you should be able to find a replacement fairly easily. Springs are simple devices, and if you can measure the wire diameter and guesstimate the uncompressed and compressed length, you can buy (or have made) a functional replacement. Hold your pieces together and measure uncompressed length, then compress both pieces individually and measure them, add those numbers together subtracting one wire diameter to get compressed length. You can look for compression springs and die springs on McMaster-Carr, or try a specialty spring manufacturer like Lee Spring ( http://www.leespring.com ).
 
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks