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Interest 2.5 ton to 5 ton wheel adapters

frodobaggins

Active member
2,861
16
38
Location
Ruston, La
Makes sense. I can certainly see just a few costing quite a bit. But anyone selling them should be ordering a LOT more. I would hope that would bring it down quite a bit. Now if someone is machining these in their home shop, in their spare time, I can
see how it would get pricey.

I don't know, I'm certainly not trying to upset anyone, just trying to get my head around it. My earlier assumptions were assuming 100+ plates or more if that helps.
 

Dave08

Member
167
6
18
Location
Titusville Florida
Treeguy,

Suppose to be heading to the shop today to make some more plates. I am going to concentrate on trying to get one complete plate/rim completed today.

The price conversation centers around labor costs as well as your raw material costs in relation to your locations. For example my 1045 steel plates or as you referred to them as pizzas, are also Machine cut from bar stock. My plates are then fire cut to my specifications which are slightly larger outer diameter and my inner cut for the deuce hub is a smaller diameter. This is so that my final cuts are machined cuts. The price for my stock plate material is a lot lower than what you are being quoted. Of course, my labor costs are mine so there is no costs associated there. However, your CAD drawings that you sent me are being priced out by my son's shop and then we can compare prices with what you were quoted. I will try to get the star board material to make you a proto type of your design to send you and will let you know. The one variable is time. I have to do this when the shop is available which may also delay things. The key to everything is quantity. The more that are made, the cheaper the per unit cost becomes. You must also look at what the profit margins are and where you are located, the profit margins are a lot higher than where I am located which drives the price as well. I will continue to push to get my plates done and also to create your proto type. Once the machines are programed, there is very little set up time involved for producing the plates. I will not say no set up time but the machines are programmed and we would have already made a jig to produce the plates. The set up time would be placing the jig and plate in the mill and the machine run time. Of course, by me doing things on an as available basis, lessens the cost due to no labor cost. However, if the shop prices it out, then there is the cost of the shop (overhead) with profit included. I will push to get the price quote for you on an official basis to let you know.
Dave08
 

pand9

New member
19
0
0
Location
Middleboro /Ma
8 to 10 bolt adapter costs
blank flame cut from 1 1/2" plate. 14 1/4 OD, 4" ID 130.00
sliced from bar stock ?
10 new wheel studs and nuts 80.00 + 8 more new studs 54.00 =134.00 +/-
Minimal stock cost 264.00
I have the "old fashoined" Lathe and milling machine with digital readout and handcranks and a large rotary table.
Time to true plate for flatness and final OD and ID. Drill and counterbore 18 holes.
Lets not forget the time and cost to Think rethink design and build needed fixtures and to purchase needed tooling. Then paraying that Mr Murphy hasnt snuck in.
Oh did I mention TIME, that commodity that I seem to have less of than money and I dont have a lot of that either.
It makes me think again at just buying a set of A3 wheels and bolting them on. Yikes
 

blackrock

New member
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Location
Phoenixville,Pa
Blackrock, if you look at the attached picture from Cuukvee you will see how close the two studs are (imagine two circles). There will not be enough room to spin one or the other but not both nuts, even if the deuce pattern is counter sunk. Cuukvee has the drawing for this type of adapter, but as you can see the deuce studs are reversed. He says that there is enough space in the back of the truck's front hub to run the nuts.

Frodo, I am up against a wall with my converson plates because of the cost. The cost is run up respectivly due to where you live. To get anything machined in my local area the reputable shops are charging $85-$100+ per hour. I was quoted $4000 for my job (6 plates fully machined including materials) and that was without cutting out the centers of the original rim. The cost of bar stock is also a problem. This estimate is for 4110 (something like that) steel. The shop said that the price of a lesser grade steel would not make much differance. This material would be cut like a pizza out of a bar 20" in diameter (my plates need to be 19" diameter). My raw pizzas were going to cost about $268 for one piece. Using flat 1/2" plate is not as an accurate way to go due to the plate's internal stresses (as explaned to me, released from the larger product and then would have to be machined flat). With bars you can get a variety of better quality material (I believe). The pizzas will have to be machine faced on both sides to ensure parallel and smoothness, 1/2" plate should also be faced to ensure the same tolerances, but then you end up with less (slightly) than the 1/2" that we want. The bottom line is, cost of material plus the machining which is to tight tolerances and designs and must be repeated 6 times (for me anyway). Shops need set up time and they concider small projects of 6 pieces not really a waste of time, but if they ran off 100 then you'd save on set up time and programing the machines. Kind of like if you called Grainger for one plastic 5 gal. bucket and had to pay the shipping as uposed to ordering 1000 buckets and getting a bulk discount.

On another point that I'd like to make here, slightly different issue but similar. I'm going for the bolt in plate design from the back side to get my appropriate back spacing. There will need to be 4-6 welds as I will explain and the need for LOCATOR PINS. This is for my FMTV wheels, but also should be for the same set up for HEMTT's. I am at a loss as to why no one has gone this route to ensure smooth running. So here is the assembly procedure.

Jack up one front end tire on your deuce so you can spin it
Bolt the new adapter plate to that axle (studs pressed in facing out)
Slide the larger/inner wheel half onto the plate and slight wrench tighten 3 opposing nuts
Using a dial indicator, spin the wheel and check the bead seat for runout
Because the few nuts are semi loose you can keep fiddling with the wheel to get less than 1/16" differance when spun
Once satisfied, tighten the nuts good
Remove the wheel (or not) from the truck and spot weld the plate to this wheel half in a handfull of places
Remount to the axle and remove the nuts
Slide on the outer wheel half and throw on a handfull of nuts like before
Use the dial indicator on this new outer bead edge to check its runout and adjust like before
Tighten the nuts once you are happy
(once the tire is mounted you could get a thumping action due to the beads not running in a circular path on the new plate if you don't do this)
Now that the wheel is all bolted together (heres the secret) remove it from the truck
Drill a diamter hole that everyone here can agree upon thru ALL THREE plates between the studs (I'm going with two holes)
Find a tool steel pin of the same diameter (you could weld one end to the back of the plate)
Disassemble this wheel and install the rubber
Slide in the locator pins and bolt together the outer wheel half
Repeat 5 more times

This is all in an attempt to keep the two halves in a circular position EVERY time the wheel is taken appart and put back together. There is play where the studs go into the outer wheel half and you will not be able to achieve uniform assembly without the locator pins. The spot welds are required so that the inner wheel half doesn't lose its position with the new plate (these two have to stay together).

If you have bolt in adapter plates I think that this will make assembly much easier and ensure accuracy.

Yep, you are correct. I tired a few different things to make it work but the adapter would end up being 3inchs thick.

Thanks Kyle
 

13 MIKE

New member
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Location
MI
I have been reading the threads on adaptors for a while. For what it's worth, the only one i make is the plate version. I had a few guys contact me about the bolt in ones. After drawing it out, and thinking about it, i didn't like it. Everyone thinks it's no big deal, but the big picture is, I wasn't confident that someone would pay attention to their reverse lugnuts mounted behind the hub, i don't like it.

With the plate all the nuts are in view, and easier to see if something looks off. There is no need to have your pizzas sawed, and then machined. Get some A-36 plate a half inch thick, it will be within .015 in flatness. Well within reason. Also. with the big rubber, you'll never notice if your wheel assembly is running out .030.
 

pand9

New member
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Location
Middleboro /Ma
I wasn't confident that someone would pay attention to their reverse lugnuts mounted behind the hub,
13 MIKE
I agree. This is a major concern with this type of adapter. You need a mirror and a flashlight to "visualy" inspect the lugs on the back side of the Hub. Not easy to do on a quick mid trip walkaround.

Also in to think about.
Alignment:
Are there studs available with splines that are another 1/2" longer than stock so the hub is aligned to the adapter? what are the tolerences when the hub was macineded to make this possible?
Or
Should not the back side of the hub be counter sunk to center the stud in the hub? Will this alter the hub in a way that DOT would curb the truck.? (if they could find it)
Or, what if, ............ all good things to consider but at what point are we overanalizing things?

Also. with the big rubber, you'll never notice if your wheel assembly is running out .030.
Again I agree with 13 MIKE.
with somthing like 500#'s of perfectly round and balanced rotating mass will anyone notice it?

But again the big picture. Like most things it comes down to cost. If you must have HEMTT rims, already have or you can get them for free then you need an adapter of some kind.

If not what are the costs to use these wheels? Lets just say you could get a bolt in no modification adapter for 200, a wheel for 250 thats 450 or 900 per axle.
I have found A3 wheels listed for sale at several locations for 350 or 700 / axle.
now to search the threads to find the pros and cons of A3 wheels.
 

Mike929

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Location
DFW, Tx
Looking at other adapters, my brother and I have decided to build this one as our solution to the problem. I'm thinking we can safety wire the nuts that are inside the hub to assure none of them move after assembled.
(These are pictures of another members truck and adapters. He was also nice enough to supply a CAD drawing.)
 

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13 MIKE

New member
220
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Location
MI
I think safety wire is a big plus, along with a visual inspection. I'm not saying that style is bad or inherently dangerous. It's just something i would rather not have my name on.

I overanalyze because it's my job. I'm not one guy in his garage, i have over 50 employees to worry about.
 

pand9

New member
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0
0
Location
Middleboro /Ma
13 Mike
No critisism meant in your direction. I can truly appreciate what it takes to keep Mr Murphy from entering the process.

And thanks for keeping those jobs here in the USA.
 

spicergear

New member
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Location
Millerstown, PA
How are those last adapters staying centered? Deuce wheels are lug centric so you would think the adapter should be too. I know that the hub should be dead on but if it is off and you're centering it, you're adapter will be off since it is thru-bolted on. Or are they pressed studs and the back of the hub is countersunk?
 

blackrock

New member
331
1
0
Location
Phoenixville,Pa
How are those last adapters staying centered? Deuce wheels are lug centric so you would think the adapter should be too. I know that the hub should be dead on but if it is off and you're centering it, you're adapter will be off since it is thru-bolted on. Or are they pressed studs and the back of the hub is countersunk?

I believe in another thread he stated they were c-sink on the backside. Kyle
 

Mike929

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Location
DFW, Tx
Ok, so how much do you have in each plate?
Haven't bought the material, but looks like $130 just for the new studs on each adaptor plus the plate steel.

Brother said that we can get rough cut circles out of heavy plate steel and then machine them down to the size we need. No idea what that will cost.

I have to rebuild/replace my T-case, and finish my brakes, re-grease bearings, replace seals on each hub, etc., before I get to this. I do have the tires and wheels on a trailer though, so it will happen, just have to knock down the higher priority projects first.

Most of the projects I am working on now have already been well documented on the site, but as I get into this, my AC project, etc., I will take pictures so people can learn what I did for my solution and repeat or improve upon it.
 
Haven't bought the material, but looks like $130 just for the new studs on each adaptor plus the plate steel.

Brother said that we can get rough cut circles out of heavy plate steel and then machine them down to the size we need. No idea what that will cost.

I have to rebuild/replace my T-case, and finish my brakes, re-grease bearings, replace seals on each hub, etc., before I get to this. I do have the tires and wheels on a trailer though, so it will happen, just have to knock down the higher priority projects first.

Most of the projects I am working on now have already been well documented on the site, but as I get into this, my AC project, etc., I will take pictures so people can learn what I did for my solution and repeat or improve upon it.
Mike929 - have you made any progress on the adapter plates for your truck? If so, would love to see them in person since we're in the same general area. I'm looking for a solution for my truck as well.
 

Mike929

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
820
22
18
Location
DFW, Tx
Mike929 - have you made any progress on the adapter plates for your truck? If so, would love to see them in person since we're in the same general area. I'm looking for a solution for my truck as well.
Nope, haven't even started them. I've been working on must haves to get the truck safe for the road and registered.

My brother and I plan on working on getting his machine shop set up so we can start working on those Winter projects. I still need to put in a rebuilt T-case to replace mine, but waiting for a warm weekend (I found a bearing spacer that was turned into modern art on my magnetic drain plug when changing all the fluids, so I bought a surplus rebuilt one to trade out.)

When I start on the spacer, I will take as many pictures as I can to show our work, but I plan on cloning the one in the pictures.

I also have all the parts to put a military AC unit which is nice to have in Texas during the summer. I also picked up some MEP 002As, so the adapters may get bumped to spring.

On the positive side, I bought a Tire constrictor that will allow me to install my run flats and remount my bigger tires that I plan to use with the adapters so everything is moving forward, just very slow.
 

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