Involuntary starter run

[aboonski]

When I started my 1986 M1008A1 CUCV yesterday evening, the starter continued to run after I returned the key to the run position and even when I returned the ignition switch to the lock position. I had to go under the hood and disconnect the battery terminals before the starter would stop cranking the motor; by that time the batteries were getting weak and the heat from the voltage draw made the cables heat up something fierce! I may have damaged the alternators in the process but will not know until I find the source of the problem which I feel is somewhere in the steering column. I plan to replace the column anyway with a tilt unit from a 1989 GMC Jimmy but need to know if there is any difference between the wiring in a gasolene vehicle column versus a diesel unit. In troubleshooting the starter problem I will start by disconnecting the cable plug from the steering column first to see if the starter still turns. Anybody else have this problem? I intend to install an emergency disconnect switch for the starter solenoid once I find out what the problem is - also a master disconnect switch for the batteries so that I don't get my fingers burnt next time around![/i]

 

[Refalgren]

not sure what cause it but i had that happen before. had to let it run its course since i did not have any tools on hand to remove the battery cables. expensive fix...

 

[aboonski]

Thanks for the info! I think there's more to fix than just the short in the start circuit. What did you wind up replacing during the repair process?

 

[mangus580]

SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH, and you will find your problem is a $15 or less relay....

 

[aboonski]

Thanks Mike! Would the relay be located inside the cab by chance? I did smell something electrical inside the cab after I managed to kill the power to the truck - smelled more like a semiconductor than insulation though.

 

[mangus580]

Sure is, its up under the dash... roughly right about where the radio would be. Couple of relays all mounted to a bracket.

 

[aboonski]

Okay Mike, I'll check it out. I have lots of TMs on the CUCV so I am sure one of them will have a wiring schematic. One other thing I did not mention was that the horn started blowing about the time I finally pulled the cables off of the batteries - that would surely indicate melted wires somewhere! I don't like the wimpy horn anyway so I will put a set of M35 air horns under the hood once I fix the starting problems. Thanks for your input!

 

[CCATLETT1984]

also check the fusible links located on the 12v buss bar on the firewall, they may have melted. they will melt before your alts are damaged(usually).

 

[aboonski]

I found a post that indicates the part number of the solenoid as being 15591718 available at gmpartsdirect.com for $15.00. Looks like I will start there.

 

[mangus580]

Your local autozone/napa, etc will have it too.... I 'think' its AC40?

 

[aboonski]

Thanks Mike! I just went out to the truck and found the relay but don't know how to remove it. Does it bolt in from underneath or slide out somehow? I hope that's the problem but my other concern is the horn that started sounding towards the end! If the alternators are still okay, I'll be very thankful! The fuseable links are intact and no wires are melted by that junction box on the firewall so I am keeping my fingers crossed. Besides having to do with the starter, what other purpose does this solenoid have?

 

[cranetruck]

A starter solenoid may be the problem too, happened on my deuce last year, the contacts had fused closed....

 

[mangus580]

Bjorn, 99% of the time when a CUCV does this, its this relay.

The relays sole purpose is to take the 12v 'signal' from the ignition, and convert it to 24v for the starter. The relay is the 'silver' one under the dash, and plugs into its socket.

Alternatively, some people have been known to use a 'can' style solenoid, which handles the amperage better. This requires some minor modifications of removing the socket for the relay and wiring to the solenoid properly.

 

[aboonski]

Thanks Bjorn I thought about that as well. Once I disconnect the solenoid wire from the starter and hool up the batteries once again I will know at that time. I pulled the plug off of the solenoid in the dash that relates to the starter- if I don't see the starter turn, I'll know where the problem is at that point.

 

[JDToumanian]

This seems to be a common problem... was just talked about recently. Does this thread help?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=14385

Jon

 

[aboonski]

Jon!!!! Thanks for that thread! I got some very useful information and cut and pasted everything into a message to myself for future reference. I am supposed to be out in Hesperia right now but had to delay my plans because of a house that I am working on over at our local beach - that's where the truck developed the problem last night around 2000! Nice and dark outside! Fortunately I had tools in the truck and was able to pull the cables off the batteries. Anyway, my buddy Bob Gumbert lives in Hesperia and I visit him every year, usually in May. Faye and I have five acres in McArthur CA that I would just love to move to just to leave Florida for good! It is just as expensive here as it would be in CA these days - more to do and see in CA! My friend Gumbert lives at 10688 Hawthorne Avenue in Hesperia. Are you anywhere nearby?

 

[CCATLETT1984]

its a AC40 relay, mike i corrected your post.

 

[JDToumanian]

My friend Gumbert lives at 10688 Hawthorne Avenue in Hesperia. Are you anywhere nearby?

Yup! About two blocks away, off Mauna Loa St. Gimmie a shout when you're in the area, you've got to visit Dave Walker's yard, too if you've never been there...

Jon

 

[aboonski]

Yes Jon I sure will! I remember passing that street once or twice while we were out there last year. I have also been to Dave Walker's place and he's a great guy to deal with! I wouldn't mind living in Hesperia myself by the way - very nice town. The restaurants in the local area are superb like the Steer & Stein and that breakfast place on one of the main streets in Hesperia. My buddy Gump lives at the Steer & Stein! Bob Gumbert and I were stationed at Clark Air Base in 1975 and 76 and have been close friends ever since.

 

[aboonski]

I found the source of the problem!

Turns out the starter solenoid inside the cab was the culprit! It was simple to remove and once I had it out I pried the tabs up that hold the cover onto the solenoid and saw where the points were fused together big time! I plan to by the American made replacement but will also install a switch between one of the purple wires and the starter to kill the power to the starter solenoid in the event this ever happens again. I will also place battery disconect switches on the negative side of each battery in case the other starter solenoid decides to weld itself together like the in-dash unit did. I just hope all of the other electrical stuff made it through okay. I hope I can post pictures of the bad solenoid and what it looks like inside and out for the benefit of other members who may not have experienced this problem as yet.