IP timing does this seem too retarded ?

[maritimer]

ok so i went to check the timing on my IP and possibly turn the fuel up a hair and after pulling the air cleaner off and locating the scribe markes on the pump and timing cover the mark on the pump is about the thickness of a 14gauge elec wire to the passenger side of the mark on the timing cover. now if i read the manuals and threads properly this is "retarded" alot. if this is the case would it be the cause of crappy fuel mialge and and a lack of HP?

 

[CCATLETT1984]

Sorry for not getting to this sooner. You could try advancing the IP a little and see if you get a difference in performance. Only do it a line width at a time. The best way to time it is by ear. Advance the timing until the engine sounds like a powerstroke and then back it off a bit. (that is usually the sweet spot.)

 

[ultim8gamr]

Advance the timing until the engine sounds like a powerstroke and then back it off a bit. (that is usually the sweet spot.)

Do this after you have gotten the engine up to running temp right?

and which manuals would have info regarding the IP timing?

 

[CCATLETT1984]

yes you do that after the engine has gotten up to operating temp. not while the engine is running though.

there is the manual sticky post at the top of the forum, the timing adjustment should be in the engine manual.

 

[maritimer]

thanks ccatlett, right now the engine soundsmore like a 302 with headers. once i get some more time and warmth i will get around t otweaking it a bit better LOL

 

[maritimer]

well i got the IP timed and holy bannas does it sound better, like a diesel should sound LOL at least all the ones i have busted knuckles on. and it actully moves when i step on it LOL. mind you its not a vette but at least it doesnt take me 2 miles to get to 50 mph LOL

 

[NCBloodhound]

Bringing back an old thread to help add more info..

Trying to add some info to this thread instead of starting a new one...

My truck has always been sluggish, but since it has gotten cold it has gotten really bad. It also slows from 55 to 40 going up hills and puffs a bunch of white smoke out of both sides. The smoke does not smell like anti-freeze. I checked everything I could in the fuel system. Pressure and flow per Tech Manual were good. No leaks anywhere to be found. Fuel filter seated and no water or crud. Check valve on the IP was a little dirty, but not bad. So the last thing I decided to do was advance the timing on the IP, just to buy me some time. Well low and behold the timing was really retarded! Here is a pic. I will line up the marks and see how she runs. Then fine tune it. Hopefully this will fix my problems, but I am still concerned about the IP.

 

[Matt1031]

Trying to add some info to this thread instead of starting a new one...

My truck has always been sluggish, but since it has gotten cold it has gotten really bad. It also slows from 55 to 40 going up hills and puffs a bunch of white smoke out of both sides. The smoke does not smell like anti-freeze. I checked everything I could in the fuel system. Pressure and flow per Tech Manual were good. No leaks anywhere to be found. Fuel filter seated and no water or crud. Check valve on the IP was a little dirty, but not bad. So the last thing I decided to do was advance the timing on the IP, just to buy me some time. Well low and behold the timing was really retarded! Here is a pic. I will line up the marks and see how she runs. Then fine tune it. Hopefully this will fix my problems, but I am still concerned about the IP.

Swap out the fuel filter first. Symptoms describe exactly what mine does when the filter's going bad. All it takes is one bad tank. The little box type Stanadyne filters don't take much junk to get restricted. When they start to go bad it'll show up on Highway, but not city driving (flow requirements).

 

[NCBloodhound]

Swap out the fuel filter first. Symptoms describe exactly what mine does when the filter's going bad. All it takes is one bad tank. The little box type Stanadyne filters don't take much junk to get restricted. When they start to go bad it'll show up on Highway, but not city driving (flow requirements).

I will give that a shot. That is certainly cheaper than an IP. I advanced the timing to meet the mark and there wasn't much difference. Overall the truck sounded better, but going up hill was still the same or it had a little more smoke. I had it floored going up a moderate hill and it dropped from 55 to 35.

 

[jdemaris]

I advanced the timing to meet the mark and there wasn't much difference. Overall the truck sounded better, but going up hill was still the same or it had a little more smoke. .

I have no idea what is, or is not wrong with your pump. Generally speaking, the automatic timing advance in the DB2 pump is the first system to wear inside the pump and stop working. it's the reason why the military installed "Arctic Kits" in some of the pumps trying to make the timing-advance last longer.

When it's working correctly, it can change timing from 0 degrees to 20 degrees advanced throughout the RPM range. So, lets you've got a pump with a non-working timing advance. That would mean - if the two lines are lined-up . . . that timing would be perfect when you start it, but when running down the road at high RPMs it could be 20 degrees off. That's a lot. So, in a situation where a pump advance is not working at all, loosening and moving the pump is not going to fix the problem. But, if an advance is sluggish but still working a little, you can make a compromise by moving the pump a few degrees. That will give you slightly off timing at low RPMs but better at high RPMs.

 

[NCBloodhound]

LJD - That makes sense. Thanks for your reply!

 

[acesneights1]

Trying to add some info to this thread instead of starting a new one...

My truck has always been sluggish, but since it has gotten cold it has gotten really bad. It also slows from 55 to 40 going up hills and puffs a bunch of white smoke out of both sides. The smoke does not smell like anti-freeze. I checked everything I could in the fuel system. Pressure and flow per Tech Manual were good. No leaks anywhere to be found. Fuel filter seated and no water or crud. Check valve on the IP was a little dirty, but not bad. So the last thing I decided to do was advance the timing on the IP, just to buy me some time. Well low and behold the timing was really retarded! Here is a pic. I will line up the marks and see how she runs. Then fine tune it. Hopefully this will fix my problems, but I am still concerned about the IP.

Man that pump is retarded. It must have been hangin' out with me...

 

[jdemaris]

Man that pump is retarded. It must have been hangin' out with me...

Timing problems are not easy to diagnose on 6.2s with common tools. Stanadyne pumps used on some heavy equipment can be run with degreed plastic timing windows bolted to them when running - and that makes checking timing advance easy. No good with a 6.2. Easiest way I know of to verify if the timing advance is working is with a gas engine timing light hooked to a microphone-adapter. It hears injection pulses and turns them into an electrical signal. So, you can hook the timing light to the 6.2, rev the engine up while pointing the light at the timing marks on the crank pulley and see if the advance works. The diesel adapters use to sell for $90 but they've gone up.

GM does the same with a much more expensive lumiosity probe. Goe in a glow plug hole and sees when a cylinder fires.

 

[acesneights1]

Snap On MT480 is the tool. Kent Moore also makes one but good luck finding either. I have owned many many 6.2s and yet to see one with the IP kicked to the pass side and run good. Most are either lined up or as the timing chain wears bumped to the drivers side.

 

[doghead]

The Kent-Morre Tach&Time is still available new, for around $800. Plenty used ones come up in online auctions, for much less.

They have 3 choices for sensing. Fuel line pulse, luminosity probe, or magnetic pickup.

I love mine.

The J33300-A Tach-N-Time is a microprocessor based service tool designed for fast and accurate dynamic timing of diesel engines. Using the start of the injection/combustion signal and the crankshaft location signal, a microprocessor gives a digital display of exact engine RPM and injection pump timing in degrees.

The time of injection/combustion is picked up by either of two methods:

1. A transducer clamped on the fuel injection line senses the fuel surge in the line, or
2. A luminosity probe installed in place of the glow plug of #1 cylinder.

Crankshaft location is picked up with a magnetic probe. The probe offset is automatically computed by the Tach-N-Time and is adjustable from 0ø to 200ø. On engines with no crankshaft probe receptacle, an inductive timing light can be attached to the J33300-A to visually read crankshaft location. An adjustable pulse delay allows a direct readout of the timing angle.

Features:

• Magnetic probe adapts to engines with magnetic probe socket, and tester has variable offset to locate TDC.
• Power cables conveniently attach to 12 volt power (+8 to 26 VDC rnage) source - no internal batteries to run down.
• LED injection sensor light shows clearly if test signal is being received by Tach-N-Time.
• Microprocessor solid state electronics; no field calibration required.

Specifications:

• Timing range 0ø to 51ø with strobe light, 220ø with magnetic probe.
• RPM range 360 to 6,000.
• Accuracy ñ .2ø timing, ñ 1 RPM.
• Operating temperature -20øF to 130øF.
• Input battery voltage 8 to 26V D.C. Power draw 5 amp.
• Carrying case with accessory storage.
• Rocker switches.

 

[jdemaris]

Snap On MT480 is the tool. Kent Moore also makes one but good luck finding either. I have owned many many 6.2s and yet to see one with the IP kicked to the pass side and run good. Most are either lined up or as the timing chain wears bumped to the drivers side.

Snap On never sold a timing light adapter for diesels. Mac and Ferret did. Snap On MT480 uses a luminosity probe and "sees" the start of ignitlon. GM Kent Moore and Ford Rotunda had something similar.

Mac and Ferret sold the diesel timing light adapter. My Ferret #765 cost me around $100 five years ago. They still sell them but the price has gone up.
It hears the injection pulse and triggers a conventional timing light.

Since the Ferret reads injection pulses and the Snap On reads combustion - there's a lag between the two readings. Usually around 5 engine degrees.

 

[doghead]

jdemaris, you have violated a site rule by creating a second account. You were put on "moderation" before, for a reason. You will be permanently banned, if you create multiple accounts. You should have contacted a moderator or administrator, if you needed help with your account.

I'm banning the new account name, now. Use your original account.

 

[jdemaris]

I did . . . many many times for many months and never got a single reply. I am now on a new wireless ISP and changed my settings along with my DNS numbers.

 

[doghead]

I'll merge your 2 accounts. We now have a new admin, that should reply to the "contact us" link, much more efficiently. You can always send a PM to a known moderator.

 

[NCBloodhound]

Swap out the fuel filter first. Symptoms describe exactly what mine does when the filter's going bad. All it takes is one bad tank. The little box type Stanadyne filters don't take much junk to get restricted. When they start to go bad it'll show up on Highway, but not city driving (flow requirements).

This did the trick. I must have gotten a bad tank. I think advancing the timing to the scribe mark helped with power overall, but changing the fuel filter definitely fixed the problem with power at higher RPM. I feel like an idiot for not checking this sooner. I will check my receipts and find out which station it was. I think I know. A buddy who is a diesel mechanic says Charlotte is really bad about bad diesel. He says to go just outside of Charlotte and you are a lot better off. Of course, living on the border of NC and SC helps because fuel in SC is at least 30 cents cheaper.