Known fuels for the multi-fuel deuce

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maddawg308

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Did a search, too many results....

Is there a concise list of all the known fuels that a multi-fuel M35 deuce can safely run on? Perhaps we should come up with a list of all the fuels, followed by any info like limitations of the fuel, mixtures, mods needed to the engine needed to run the fuel, etc.
 

cranetruck

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The FDC is calibrated for four fifferent fuels, "Combat gasoline", "CIE" fuel, DF-1 and DF-2.

CIE=Compression Ignition Engine, not sure which fuel is used, kerosene?
Based on the density (specific gravity), kerosene falls right between gasoline and diesel #1.
 

DDoyle

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Continental Motors sucessfully demonstrated the engine, in LDS-427 form, to the military, using as I recall, 7 different fuels. In a past article, and past web postings, I've named them. But I don't have this information at hand at the moment.

Regards,
David Doyle
 

emmado22

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From the -10

You can burn ALOT of stuff in the M35A2...

• If the vehicle’s fuel density compensator is bypassed, the vehicle must be refueled
with diesel fuel only, and the fuel tank must be clearly stenciled DIESEL FUEL
ONLY. If the fuel density compensator is bypassed and fuel other than diesel fuel
is used, the engine will not run properly.
• Primary fuels listed in table 15 must be used whenever possible. If primary fuels
are not available, alternate fuels should be used in the following order (i.e., from
FUEL LOWER TEMPERATURE LIMIT
(DO NOT USE BELOW THIS TEMPERATURE)
Primary Fuels
Diesel fuel, VV-F-800, grade DF-2
(NATO code no. F-54) +32 °F (0 °C)
Diesel fuel, VV-F-800, grade DF-1
(NATO code no. F-54) -10 °F (-23 °C)
Diesel fuel, VV-F-800, grade DF-A
(NATO code no. F-54) Can be used at all temperatures.
Alternate I Fuels
Turbine fuel, MIL-T-5624, grade JP-5
(NATO code no. F-44) -51 °F (-46 °C)
Distillate fuel, MIL-F-24397, ND
(NATO code no. F-85) +40 °F (+4 °C)
Commercial diesel fuel
(ASTM D975) 2-D and no. 2 +32 °F (0 °C)
Diesel fuel, MIL-F-16884
(NATO code no. F-75 or F-76) +15 °F (-9 °C)
Commercial diesel fuel
(ASTM D975) 1-D and no. 1 -10 °F (-23 °C)
Turbine fuel, aviation,
MIL-T-38219 grade JP-7 -46 °F (-43 °C)
Turbine fuel, aviation, kerosene type,
MIL-T-83133, grade JP-8
(NATO code no. F-34)
-58 °F (-50 °C)
Aviation gasoline, MIL-G-5572, AVGAS 80/87
(NATO code no. F-12) -76 °F (-60 °C)
Commercial aviation gasoline
(ASTM D910) grade 80/70 -72 °F (-58 °C)
Commercial gasoline, leaded, low lead or
unleaded, when research octane number is 89 or
below, or octane number displayed on retail
gasoline pumps in CONUS is 85 or below
*
Commercial aviation turbine fuel
(ASTM D1655), jet A -40 °F (-40 °C)
Commercial aviation turbine fuel
(ASTM D1655), jet A-1 -52 °F (-47 °C)
Any mixture of primary and/or
alternate I fuels listed above. *
Table 15. Permissible Fuels.

Never mix gasoline or JP-4 turbine fuel with other fuels outside vehicle fuel tank;
gasoline and JP-4 turbine fuel are highly combustible and may explode, resulting
in injury or death to personnel. Mixing must be done only by adding fuels to fuel tank.
CAUTION
If engine runs rough when using an alternate II fuel, add 10%–30% diesel fuel to smooth
engine performance. Failure to add diesel fuel may result in piston damage.
Table 15. Permissible Fuels (Contd).
FUEL LOWER TEMPERATURE LIMIT
(DO NOT USE BELOW THIS TEMPERATURE)
Alternate II Fuels
Turbine fuel, MIL-T-5624, grade JP-4
(NATO code no. F-40) -72 °F (-58 °C)
Turbine fuel, aviation, naphtha-type
(ASTM D1655), jet B -58 °F (-50 °C)
Gasoline, unleaded/low-leaded,
VV-G-001690, special grade (91/82) *
Combat gasoline, MIL-G-3056, MOGAS
(NATO code no. F-46) 0 °F (-18 °C)
Gasoline, automotive
(NATO code no. F-50) *
Gasoline, W-G-76, regular and
premium grades *
Gasoline, unleaded/low-leaded,
VV-G-001690, regular and premium grades *
Aviation gasoline, MIL-G-5572, AVGAS 100/300
(NATO code no. F-18) -75 °F (-59 °C)
Commercial aviation gasoline
(ASTM D910), grade 100/130 -72 °F (-58 °C)
Commercial gasoline (ASTM D439), leaded, lowlead,
or unleaded, where research octane number
is above 90, or octane number displayed on retail
gasoline pumps in CONUS is above 86
*
Any mixture of alternate II with primary,
alternate I, and/or alternate II fuels listed above *
Emergency Fuels
Burner fuel oil, VV-F-815, grade FO-1 0 °F (-18 °C)
Burner fuel oil, VV-F-815, grade FO-2 20 °F (-7 °C)
Commercial burner fuel oil
(ASTM D396), grade FO-1 0 °F (-18 °C)
Commercial burner fuel oil
(ASTM D396), grade FO-2 20 °F (-7 °C)
 

GunTruckBuilder

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Just out of curiosity, if you're doing an engine, transmission, transfer case, or axle oil change can you dump the old oil in the fuel tank and run the truck on it? Maybe if it's mixed with some diesel?
 

maddawg308

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From what I've been told, yes, but you must filter it well, and never more than 20-30% in volume. That is, for every 50 gallon tank, you use a max of 10-15 gallons of filtered used waste oil.

How about: mineral oil, rubbing alcohol, Coleman fuel, whiskey, hydraulic fluid, vegetable oil, butane.
 

cranetruck

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emmado22 said:
From the -10

You can burn ALOT of stuff in the M35A2...

• If the vehicle’s fuel density compensator is bypassed, the vehicle must be refueled
with diesel fuel only, and the fuel tank must be clearly stenciled DIESEL FUEL
ONLY. If the fuel density compensator is bypassed and fuel other than diesel fuel
is used, the engine will not run properly.
• Primary fuels listed in table 15 must be.....)
It depends on how "run properly" is defined, it will run perfectly well on all fules listed in my above post plus some (veggie oil and biodiesel, for example) with the FDC bypassed and fuel delivery adjusted.

Since the military does make this modification, there should be an MVO, but nobody seems to be able to come up with it.

My LDS465-2 manual does not authorize "aviation" or "commercial" gasoline, "combat" gasoline is okay.
 

maddawg308

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What is the difference between commercial and combat gas? Except for avgas, I thought gasoline was pretty much all the same.
 

Westech

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I have been running 80% ATF for almost a year now and no problems. I have run gas, E-85, Diesel, Home heating oil, used motor oil, used ATF, hydro fluid, Gear oil, new motor oil, veggie oil (new), paint thinner, mass amounts of Diesel 911 (got a case of leakers once).
The only "problem" I have had is when running over 80% gas. The truck is very hard starting but when fired up you cant tell your running any differnet fuel. With the heavy fuels I do feel a tad more power and the EGT's run about 100* higher.
 

Karl kostman

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Afternoon Emmado22 based upon what I read in this thread you seem very knowledgable on Fuels for the 35. Here is my question. On a data plate on my truck it states to NOT use any type of AVIATION gasoline! OK Running ANY type of gasoline in a diesel engine usually resutls in destruction of engine, I totally understand that but WHY would a gasoline of a usually higher octane rating be forbiden in this engine? The higher octane rating is made to run in higher compression engines because of its ability to reduce Pre-ignition possibilities in a gasoline engine but can you explain to me WHY this type of higher octane gasoline is Forbiden from being used in a Deuce with a LDT 465 C, I am just trying to learn WHY.

Thanks Emmado22

Karl
 

Pinz25086

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I believe that cetane number refers to a fuels ability TO ignite under compression with out a spark. Higher cetane number = better diesel fuel. Octane refers to a fuels ability NOT TO ignite without a spark. Higher octane number resists pinging or pre-detonation. Higher octane fuels would have a hard time igniting without a spark plug to "start the fire". I am sure a small amount mixed into some diesel would work, but it is advised not to do it so I will not try out my theory.

Wayne
 

Mt Doom Field Owner

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From what I've been told, yes, but you must filter it well, and never more than 20-30% in volume. That is, for every 50 gallon tank, you use a max of 10-15 gallons of filtered used waste oil.

How about: mineral oil, rubbing alcohol, Coleman fuel, whiskey, hydraulic fluid, vegetable oil, butane.
When the apocalypse comes and I drive the deuce past the Jack Daniels distillery in Lynchburg, TN. I will fill the tank with 50 year old Jack... and that's not the only "tank" that I'll cap off.:beer:
 

Karl kostman

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Good Morning Wayne Thanks for responding to my question and that is the best reason I have heard it does make a fair amount of sense! And I share your line of thinking on testing it in my truck JUST DONT SEE THAT HAPPENING Wayne!
Thanks for the good info and have a great weekend

Karl
 
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