LDS465-1a smoke reduction at idle?

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63ragtop

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i have a LDS465-1a in a M54A2 (i know it's not a deuse, but more M35's have LDS's now than 5 tons like mine for hot-rodding) so, please excuse me for bending the rules.

i am trying to reduce the amount of smoke produced at idle for various reasons.

first, here is a list of mods i have so far:

FDC is bypassed
added an intercooler
4" off the turbo pipe to a 5" strieght pipe
small turbo billet compressor wheel upgrade
blocked off the factory wastegate
master fuel turned down slightly
ETG gauge
boost gauge
upgraded new style head gaskets

right now i'm getting 17 psi boost around 2000 rpm's and close to 20 psi at 2700 rpm's. my EGT's never get more than 1050 and it runs clean going down the road. in fact this thing is got plenty of power and is almost perfect except the smoke at idle can choke a grown man quickly in my yard (1 cleared acre surrounded by tall trees) with no wind...lol!

like i stated, i have turned the fuel down after the FDC bypass.

i would like to know if anybody has tried to adjust the droop screw down to solve this issue? i believe after watching a Tactical repairs video on fuel adjustments on a deuse (which was for a LDT465) that you can adjust the master screw for a full sweep increase in fuel across the rpm's, and the smoke cam adjusts the top end while the droop screw adjusts the bottom and separates the fuel scaling. this is one approach i am considering.

the other one, i was told to try by a local diesel shop that rebuilt my injectors and does pumps and all things diesel performance, to advance the pump timing 2 degrees or so and it would clean up a little. this seams a little risky so that is the reason i ask you guys.

now i am no noob to performance efi tuning and carbs turbos ect... but for diesels and especially this multifuel, very NOOB!

any experiences or advise accepted.

however, i offed don't listen and learn the hard way...LOL!
 

Menaces Nemesis

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Although my engine isn't an LDS, I had the same problem using the same one-hole injector tips that I believe are often found in the LDS. I'd get flipped off in town by folks who got "gassed out" sitting next to me at a stoplight. The smoke would just cascade down out of the stack and engulf the area. Even got an official letter from Colorado Gubment due to complaints made to the state about my truck! Man I tried all the usual suspects; adjusting droop (I even adjusted it down so far the truck wouldn't start, even when warmed-up!), making sure the air filter and fuel filters were pristine, valves properly adjusted, ran it hard up steep grades to get the rings to seal better/attain better thermal efficiency. None of the "tuning" stuff seemed to help, but... My experience was that the engine was just flat-out over-fueled at idle with those one-hole injectors, even if they're tight, within spec, and chirping when pop-tested. Switching to two-hole injectors cleaned up the smoke at idle immediately. No more single-finger salutes at the stoplight, and no more letters from the gubment since I ditched those one-hole injectors. :-D

Other thing is to pull the hose off the compressor side of the turbo (engine stopped of course), and make certain the seals haven't started leaking oil since the last time you were in there. If they leak badly enough, that can also cause excess smoke (and possibly, god forbid, a run-away).
 
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63ragtop

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Yeah, I have heard of this but have not been able to find the injectors or the nozzles anywhere. If I could get a part # for the nozzles or the injectors my local guy said he could get them. Idk if he is right but he told me that if the military commissions certain engine/whatever parts have to continue to be manufactured.???

I would like to give him a chance to prove that! Maybe he's right?
 

rustystud

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Yeah, I have heard of this but have not been able to find the injectors or the nozzles anywhere. If I could get a part # for the nozzles or the injectors my local guy said he could get them. Idk if he is right but he told me that if the military commissions certain engine/whatever parts have to continue to be manufactured.???

I would like to give him a chance to prove that! Maybe he's right?
All multifuel engines went to the two hole injector, so they are the "norm" now. Any military truck supplier should have them. I would call "White Owl" first. Their number is 252-522-2586. Talk with George.
Also I got some NOS two hole injectors on eBay last year for $40.00 each. You just have to look around.
 

cattlerepairman

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Although my engine isn't an LDS, I had the same problem using the same one-hole injector tips that I believe are often found in the LDS.
I have an LDS with the one hole injectors and Menaces' description is bang on.

Smokes at idle and runs ...umm...clean-ish under load.

One of these days I'll switch in the two hole injectors I have...

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 

63ragtop

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It's good to know that others out there had the same issue LOL. I'll be calling around today to Boyce equipment Eastern Surplus and the guy mentioned in the last post.

anyone got any ideas about going 2 degrees Advance on the injection pump? my local guy seems to think that would give it just a little bit more time to burn a little cleaner, and he doesn't think it would cause any problems. Has anybody had experience with this before?
 

SCSG-G4

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TaylorTradingCo had complete two hole injectors a while back at a reasonable price. Several people at the GA Rally bought sets that year. He might still have some.
 

63ragtop

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it looks like I found that at least one or two options for the two hole injectors.

Does anyone have any experience advancing or playing with the injection pump timing? I'm really interested to find out if anybody's tried it and if it has any good effects or no effect or ill effect.

There are three timing marks on the balancer. I was wondering what would happen if you had a turbo on a ld465 n/a engine w/o changing the pump timing to the ldt/lds mark which is 6 degrees retarded from n/a. or why the turbo models are six degrees retarded from the na versions?

Maybe I should start a new post just for this topic? Or is there one already I haven't found?
 
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63ragtop

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Good lessons from the link & the video. I am still hoping to find someone who has tried advanced IP timing on a ldt or lds. I am going to try another post specific to IP timing.
 

63ragtop

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injection pump timing advance ldt/lds multifuel anyone?

I would like to know has anybody been brave enough to try and Advance timing setting for their multi-fuel? Either for a better power or smoke reduction. for any reason has anybody purposely advanced timing and having experience of what happened?

I have a lds465-1a with these things done:

added an intercooler
4" off the turbo pipe to a 5" strieght pipe
small turbo billet compressor wheel upgrade
blocked off the factory wastegate
master fuel turned down slightly
ETG gauge
boost gauge
upgraded new style head gaskets
Ceracote thermal coating on exhaust manifold & turbo hot side

EGT is good at 1050 max, boost is under 20 psi, power is good. Smokes too much at idle and I was told by my local diesel injection pump rebuilding facility to advance my timing a couple degrees and it would possibly give me a little better power and clean up the idle. I still have the other post about this dirty idle problem but I'm also interested in all out performance in small steps and a lot of ways hence my list of mods All the Small Things that add up to pretty good outcome.
 

Floridianson

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Before I would try advancing I would switch to two hole injectors and make sure they are pop tested to at least 3200 if not 3500 psi. before installing them.
 
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63ragtop

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Yeah I just had my injectors tested and cleaned but they are single holes. 2 hole injectors are going to happen for sure. Just wondering if anyone has messed with advanced timing
 

rustystud

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Before I would try advancing I would switch to two hole injectors and make sure they are pop tested to at least 3200 if not 3500 psi.https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?190237-LDS465-1a-smoke-reduction-at-idle
I agree with Floridianson here. You really don't want to mess with the factory timing for such a simple fix. Now if your going for performance then by all means mess away with the timing. Just be warned, without "beefing" up the bottom end (ie: replacing the stock rod bolts with the improved 12 point bolts and things like that) you can open up a can of worms ! Breaking rod bolts is not fun ! I'm a firm believer in building an engine to it's purpose. If it's a stock application, then stock is fine. Leave it alone. If it's going to be a sled puller, then build it to handle the power. Just be prepared to pay the price !
Going half-ass is never a good idea.
It's like that kid in school who took the family chevy and put an "Edelbrock" manifold and "Holley" carb on that old 350 cid engine. Then proceeded to drag race everyone. Of course he blew the engine after a week or two. Same thing applies here.
 

Jeepsinker

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If you advance the timing by 2° you will just blow a headgasket. The more you advance the injection timing, the higher the cylinder pressure, to a point. Static timing is already 22° BTDC, and these engines already have issues with lifting the heads. Leave the timing alone. I have a new set of two hole nozzles if you still need.
 

63ragtop

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Wow...22°! I'm not great at finding that specification in the TM. Seams you guys are all concurred. A 12v Cummins is around 13° stock, and 18° is sorta extreme for them.

I have sights on a couple options for the 2 hole injectors but the cost right now (about $250) is something I will be budgeting for later.

Thanks for the wisdom and patients!
 
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63ragtop

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OK, i aquired a set of 2-hole injectors and had them professionally cleaned and tested. after installing them i immediately noticed 3 things:

1 + it started much easier and quicker
2 ++ it smokes much less like you have all said
3 --- it is down on boost and power

i was at 19 psi boost before with great drive-ability in all gears, and it is down to 12-15 psi at best. it will not go well at all in 5th gear now.

i would assume that this is due to the 2-holes probably flow less fuel, and that i could just turn up the main fuel screw till i get back to my target boost/power level. I am now asking you guys if this is normal, and am i correct to turn up the fuel a little?
 
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