Letting the crankshaft drop

[beetleswamp]

I'm following along in the procedure to change rear main seal as per 3-34 in TM 9-2320-289-34. Rope seal disintegrated and there's a couple inches stuck up in there. Sneaky Pete has gone as far as he can go and no luck pushing it out with trimmer line/plastic push rods, so I loosened all the bearing caps two turns per TM. But crankshaft is not dropping! Yanked and wiggled it and finally there's a little more of a gap in some places, but old seal is still wedged tight up in there tight.

It's kind of holding me hostage at this point, since I have to get it back together this week and get inspected before my registration runs out in Dec 1. Do I just take a pry bar and try to pry the crankshaft down? Not sure where to get a good purchase, but above and beyond that it just seems wrong.

Also I read on different sites about guys using copper wire inside small aluminum pipe to hammer out the last chunks of stubborn rope seal. An suggestions on how to smash? It's been there for 33 years and apparently doesn't want to leave. Mahalo.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Did you unbolt your torque converter?

 

[cucvrus]

I have changed many of these rear main seals. I never had one that I needed to get violent with. The oil soaked rope came out every time. Solid strand house ground wire may work. I never encountered this. I know when you put the new 2 piece seal up in there it will be tight. Lube it good and hopefully it will push out what you think is up there. Do you see it up there? I know when I changed mine on Terminus M1009 it hardly had 1/2 the rope seal left. So make sure something is still up there. Do NOT line up the 2 halves of the seal with the same seam in the block and bearing cap. Good Luck. Report back. I guess my question is can you see the old rope up there? I would NOT pry down on the crank shaft or beat on it.

 

[beetleswamp]

Thanks guys. No I did not unbolt the torque converter. Didn't recall seeing that in the TM procedure. Hopefully it's not to difficult to get back together again, because that very well might be the next step.

I'm definitely certain there is a chunk up there blocking the way. Can see it but it's deep enough where Sneaky Pete can no longer get a bite. Will try the house wire first. Also thank you for the recommendation of lining up the two halves first. That's probably a huge reason most people's repairs go wrong. Also appreciate your Terminus thread, although wish this part went as smoothly as yours.

Any recommendations to spray up there as far as lube? I know some chemicals make seals blow up like balloons, but obviously this seal is not the usual material. Feels like it just needs to pop loose out of the groove and it will slide right out like the chunk on the other side.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I would lube the new seal with clean engine oil. The rear of the crank is being held snug by the converter. Also let me add that I had a long feeler gauge that I used to use on small blocks to remove old seals.

 

[Chaski]

Try some compressed air? Maybe purchase a second new seal and use it as a tool to push out the old rope chunks.

 

[cucvrus]

OK. What is sneaky Pete? And what is it trying to bite. I push them new seals around by hand. I stop at 8 and 2 and then put the cap one in at the same setting tighten it up and done.

 

[cucvmule]

I have never had to nor would I let crank loose to get rear main seal out. May cause a host of other problems. Spun bearings, goodbye crank.

I have replaced rear main rope seals of all types. Not fun, being patient pays off. Several great responses, copper wire, my favorite, different gages. Sometimes I have had to use a new seal as a clearance tool, then place new seal as said already, 8 and 2, 10 and 4. I use a mixture of lithium grease and 3 and 1 oil, and try not to get any on the converter side as it is a magnet for dirt which helps wear the seal.

Good Luck hope we helped, I have even as far as made, used horse rope and replaced, fixed leaking seals, hydraulic cylinder packing on older cylinders where you can not find, locate a proper new type packing.

 

[cucvmule]

I forgot to add make sure to face seal the right way, as the seal is directional. Been awhile for my Chevrolet cranks. Spun number 4 rod bearing on 98 350 engine. Looks like I have another project coming up.

 

[beetleswamp]

OK. What is sneaky Pete? And what is it trying to bite. I push them new seals around by hand. I stop at 8 and 2 and then put the cap one in at the same setting tighten it up and done.

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-27000-Sneaky-Pete-Tool/dp/B0002SRCJW

It's a seal puller/installer and some people swear by it. Unfortunately for me it only took out chunks since my seal was disintegrating and when I ran out of chunks it left a whole solid section behind way up in there.

@mule yeah it totally feels all wrong to unbolt the bearing caps, but it's actually in the procedure spelled out by the TM in the chapter mentioned above. Going to try the copper wire first when the hardware store opens tomorrow. I'd really feel uncomfortable unbolting the torque converter at this point. Thanks for the greasing info and tips on how to line it up. Definitely don't want to be back up in here any time soon.

 

[beetleswamp]

Success! Picked up some 4 and 6 awg grounding wire at the store and went slow and methodical as recommended. Needed the 4 to break it loose and the 6 to get it around the corner without shaving pieces of copper on the lip. Turned out to be a little chunk about 3/4 inch but man was it stubborn.

Other good news is every time I come off the creeper I'm a little less greasy. Would much rather not use my epidermis as a shop rag, so in the future I'll get a long sleeve shirt and (more importantly) not ignore the leaks for years on end.

Mahalo for your kokua.

 

[dependable]

Other good news is every time I come off the creeper I'm a little less greasy. Would much rather not use my epidermis as a shop rag,

Consider buying a pack of disposable gloves too. They are kind of like medical gloves, change them when they rip get to greased up, keeping work and tools clean, as well as skin, liver, etc.

 

[beetleswamp]

Agreed. I'm a big fan of Gloveworks HD and also keep the costco ones near by for light duty stuff.

Well turns out I celebrated too soon. Got everything cleaned up and went to install the new seal but it got stuck. Turns out there's lots more gunk left up in there so had to run the #6 wire through a few more times and blacken some q-tips soaked in carb cleaner. Tried again but everything is dirty so figured I'd stop for tonight and clean it all up again in the morning light so I don't accidentally stuff a sand particle in there. A little bit frustrating but beginning to feel the excitement of putting it all back together and seeing how she sounds with the new timing chain.

 

[beetleswamp]

Got it all cleaned up and tried install again but no go, only halfway. Shoot. There were some serious chunks still up in there even after running the 4ga wire through a couple times. Using the Sneaky Pete corkscrew as a pipe cleaner I kept pulling out more and more little chunks. Then try the seal again. Then more chunks. Then try the seal again. The seal got kind of messed up from all the in-and-out so I ordered another one from Napa. So close...

 

[Recovry4x4]

So, now that the seal is munged up, try wacking off a small section and use it to push out whatever spooge is left up there. By chopping off a bit, you can work it in place easier.

 

[cucvrus]

I have a little secret. I would not loosen the main bearings. I would use a 15/16" socket and turn the crank clockwise while trying to install the seal. Fish it in that way. I have done this method in the past. But never had all the issues you are having. I wonder if some genius didn't apply some sort of sealer compound to the rope seal when they installed it. I lay on the ground now and change them. I used to have the luxury of a lift but not anymore. Good Luck.

 

[beetleswamp]

Finally got the cap back on and torqued. Now have to to around and re-torque the rest of the caps and try to remember where the pan bolts go but the man battle is over. Sent the old munged up seal through several times as recommended and turned the crank to try and help. Seemed to be sliding pretty good but when I put the new seal in it got hung up on some schmoo so back out again and back to scraping. Finally got it but bleh. I usually like the projects but this was NO fun. It's actually helpful to imagine some genius putting extra spooge on there because it makes me feel less developmentally disabled. Not completely unheard of. Recently got a van with some sludge issues and when I pulled the pan to clean it out the oil pickup screen was blocked with crusty sealant chunks because whoever had it off last had used way too much of the wrong kind.

Lessons learned:
Loosening all the bearing caps two turns (per the TM) does make sliding the new seal in super easy, but if you have a goo monster hiding up there it's going to suck no matter what.

Hopefully now that most 6.2s are either scrapped or rope seals have been changed out by now I'm one of the last people on the planet faced with this particular situation.

 

[cucvmule]

Beetleswamp, since you have finished repair on rear main seal has everything been satisfactory since repair?

I hope repair was worth the effort involved. Rear main seal on Chevrolet engines, at least to but not including LS series has always have been a challenge on longevity. Sitting for periods of time without running engine to lubricate, and keep flexible the rubber or neoprene seal will put increased, rapid wear on seal.

Hope that everything is well. Happy New Year! Keep them MV's moving!