looking for M35A3 winch parts

[wldrbob]

sharlin has an 11.2 ci 15 gpm max 304 rpm 2343 inch lb at 1600 psi for around 225 bucks

 

[Sephirothq]

ok let me know about the stand

 

[mudguppy]

sharlin has an 11.2 ci 15 gpm max 304 rpm 2343 inch lb at 1600 psi for around 225 bucks

this will make for an extremely slow winch. this will only net you about 18 fpm max. even at this speed, you'll be maxing out that 300 rpm, and you'll be 50 ft-lbs and 300 psi short of making maximum line pull.

northern tool motor 1042 would be a much better choice and it's cheaper. of course, final system performance depends on the pump specs.

again, if someone can get me the pump displacement and ratings then i can calculate a good alternative if the stock parker motor cannot be sourced.

 

[mudguppy]

... I am pretty sure the shaft to drive the winch is 1-1/4" can anyone confirm this?

this was already confirmed.

 

[wldrbob]

your deuce winch needs 145 ft lbs at the input shaft to pull 10000 lbs on the 4th wrap of cable (2343 divided by 12 =195 for the sharlyn)... at 800 rpm your pto is turning 520 rpm divide this by 23(worm gear reduction)( take diamiter of spool, times pi, times number of rpm your winch drum turns) . when your bad stuck 18 fpm is way to fast to winch out a deuce . mile marker hyd winches usualy pull about 4 fpm or less on the first wrap of the drum. and it dosent matter what max pressure your pump puts out (13 gal at 1000 rpm)your max motor specs (gpm at pressure)and the setting of your valve body relief (0 to 2500 usualy) are going to tell you how much you can pull before bypassing your relief. my gasser deuce idles at 375 to 400 another reason its easy to winch with it. around the speed of the hyd winches top speed

 

[Sephirothq]

the pump specs are
GPM 13 @1000RPM
Max RPM 3000
Inlet Port Sixe 1"
Rotation Counterclockwise
Max Pressure 3500PSI
shaft size 3/4 11 SPL
Outlet Port size 1" STR THD

 

[Sephirothq]

bob
there is alot of good info there. thanks

 

[wldrbob]

thats a verry big pump way more than you need for a deuce winch that pump is the same size that our end dump gravel trucks use ,40 gpm at 3000 rpm you will probly need reastricrors in your lines or make sure not to rev it up and restrictors cause heat lots of heat. with that pump we use 35 gallon resevors usualy need one gallon of oil per gallon of pump size at max pumping you need a 15 gal per min pump at 3000 rpm and thats even big .. military gpm for there mile marker winches are about 3,5 gpm runing of there power steering pumps at 1500 psi tops. 15 gal per min at 3500psi takes approx 50 hp to run

 

[Sephirothq]

Those are the specs on the stock pump for the regular M35A3 winch trucks

 

[wldrbob]

we used a pump that size to make a metal bender and we ran a reduction of 5 to one with a 15 hp gas motor works ok but we sometimes stall it if we are not carefull. you pump will (if in good shape) keep max pressure no matter what your rpms are just your gallons per min will change.. do they have any dumptrucks in the m35a3 trucks?

 

[mudguppy]

your deuce winch needs 145 ft lbs at the input shaft to pull 10000 lbs on the 4th wrap of cable (2343 divided by 12 =195 for the sharlyn)... ...

fantastic, but i said 'max pull', not 10k lbs. this is different and based on the fact that the OE shear pins break at approx. 250ft-lbs. personally, it's not worth it to spend this kind of money on converting a winch for attaining less than half of it's capacity.

and 195ft-lbs isn't correct; you've taken no assumptions for mechanical losses/efficiencies.

Charlyn, not sharlyn.

... at 800 rpm your pto is turning 520 rpm divide this by 23(worm gear reduction)( take diamiter of spool, times pi, times number of rpm your winch drum turns). ...

thanks for the math. but like you've pointed out, your max speed is now 58% of OE low gear, engine idle.

... when your bad stuck 18 fpm is way to fast to winch out a deuce . mile marker hyd winches usualy pull about 4 fpm or less on the first wrap of the drum. ...

thanks for the winching advice. and 18fpm is about what the OE winch is stock at idle (depending on the amount of cable on the drum). this is "...way to fast..."?

but who said to winch at max speed, anyway? the primary advantage to hydraulics, as i see it, is the infinitely variable speed. my system will have the capacity for 30 fpm at 1500 engine rpm. am i going to winch at that speed? no. but it's nice to know that i can wind up the cable in less than 1/2 a day.

if you're not going to take advantage of variable speed, then i don't see the value of converting to hydraulic.

... and it dosent matter what max pressure your pump puts out (13 gal at 1000 rpm)your max motor specs (gpm at pressure)and the setting of your valve body relief (0 to 2500 usualy) are going to tell you how much you can pull before bypassing your relief. my gasser deuce idles at 375 to 400 another reason its easy to winch with it.

um.......... actually, it does. if your pump won't put out the pressure, you won't be getting the pulling power. this is fundamental hydraulics that should be understood. what good is a 2500psi relief if the pump isn't capable of it?

and MF's don't idle at 375 rpm...


i guess it's up to the user. if you want it cobled together and 'rigged' so that it is technically functional, cool.

but if i'm going to go through the trouble and expense to do it, i don't understand why you wouldn't take the time to do it right. it sounds like there's a big difference in philosophy...




to the OP, again - give me some information and i can help answer questions:

• Maximum desired line pull, empty drum, OR
• Maximum desired line pull, full drum.
• Maximum desired line speed
• Pump displacement
• Pump max rated pressure
• Desired pump operating rpm (same as engine rpm?)
• Motor displacement
• Motor max rpm
• Motor max pressure

i can use this and give you:

• Input shaft torques (torque motor must produce)
• Hydraulic flows at first layer and full drum
• Hydraulic pressure required at first layer and full drum (this will give you your relief set point based on desired max line pull)
• Actual pump speed (engine speed)
• Actual motor rpm (to attain line speed)
• Oil velocity (to determine minimum hose/fitting sizes)

if you don't know what motor to use, that's fine; i have a stock A3 motor that i can use for comparo. and if you don't know what line speed, that's fine too, i can show some options.

if you don't have the pump displacement, it looks like 13gpm @ 1000rpm = ~3.00 cid. is this a stock A3 pump?

if it is, then the stock A3 pump and motor combo gives a line speed of 16fpm bare drum and 31fpm full drum (both at 1000 engine rpm) with a motor speed of 533 rpm. the pressure you want to set the system is dependant upon the line pull you desire.

 

[Sephirothq]

I have posted the specs I could find on the stock pump. I am trying to track down the stock motor as well. You guys have posted the stock motor specs on this thread already. I was thinking that i should try and match the stock specs.

I would like to be able to keep the stock specs the winch would have for the maximum pull, for the line speed like you said hydraulics are controllable. It would be nice to be able to quickly spool up the line that is out.

What is the M35A2 line speed?
the pump info i have posted
GPM 13 @1000 RPM
Max Pressure 3500 PSI
I am pretty sure it will run at the same RPM as the engine. The pump bolts to the back of the air compressor. The engine idles around 800 - 850 RPM

The motor displacement is 10.6
the motor max RPM 436
the motor max pressure is 3500 psi intermittent
the motor max pressure continuous is 2750psi

• Maximum desired line pull, empty drum, OR
• Maximum desired line pull, full drum.
• Maximum desired line speed
• Pump displacement
• Pump max rated pressure
• Desired pump operating rpm (same as engine rpm?)
• Motor displacement
• Motor max rpm
• Motor max pressure

 

[wldrbob]

search is your frend and yes a 302 gasser does idle at 375 and a deuce winch is rated at 10 k max if you have to much more than that you will shear your pin or as some have found out blow up your winch and thats with either pto or hyd . im running motors that are 4500 psi on bush equipment so dont try and tell me about max pressure and pump efficencies . if you have a 20k winch just double your pressure or size up your motor . we put up to 100k winches on oilfield trucks wet kits are instaled. mud pumps etc i probly do more hyd "stuff" in a year than most ppl in a whole lifetime. and just because its stock army dosent make it the only option.

 

[Sephirothq]

I understand that stock army isn't the only option. But at the same time, i might be able to find the stock army parts.

Bob i value your input on my project here.

 

[wldrbob]

if you can without to much trouble and it costing a fortune thats what i would do .. its just hard to replace parts that are obsolite,, for most ppl this site is super for finding parts .. and we bicker with each other but anybody on this site will go to almost any lengths to help another member. we get caught up in facts and figures but most ppl just want things to work when they pull the lever.

 

[Sephirothq]

I want the winch to work when i pull the level also. I have some time to get the parts. I can wait 6 months or better. I am trying to track down the sources for the parts.

I have the winch and the pump
I need the following
a motor
the adapter
the coupling
the valves (either a manual spool or an electric)
the safety
Hoses ( I will have to get these made or find them as I go)
the filter
the tank


I have sourced out the following
the filter
the tank
the safety
the hoses
the valves

the above are all commercial sources from northern tool

the adapter and the coupling will depend on the motor

I will probably have to make those

the motor will depend on what i can find.

I am also looking into a 5 ton winch from a 900 series truck
this is a hydraulic winch. I would be able to drop the winch so the radiator wouldn't be restricted. I have to go looking for parts.

 

[runk]

For parts, do you know about -
Surplus Center - Hydraulic Cylinders Pumps Motors
and
Discount Hydraulic Hose.com

I have bought a fair amount of stuff from both of them and been happy. Never been real impressed with the quality / price trade for northern tool's hydraulic parts, the good stuff can be found cheaper, the cheap stuff is pretty low quality.

Eaton's site for motor information -
Eaton Product Literature Library > Hydraulic Components > Motors > Char-Lynn Geroler/Geroter Motors: Spool Valve

I've had pretty good luck with NOS motors off of flea-bay, you can get some serious deals, if you can figure out what you are getting. Some of the Char-lynn motors end up with odd part numbers because they are for an OEM application, but you can often find a cross-reference, or figure it out from the specs.

 

[jesusgatos]

Lots of good tech here. Thanks guys!

 

[wldrbob]

if you go with hoses from one of the cheaper suppliers make sure you take double braid hose at least .. i like orb fittings for everything 35 ft lbs tourqe and no fooling with pipe thread or pipe goo.a bit more money over pipe fittings but neat looking and easy to adjust the lay of your hoses .. i looked up the new parker motor 10.6 ci looks like a good motor .(we use eaton motors mostely here.) you could get by with 3/8 in hose from your valve to your motor but 1/2 in is not much more . 15 to 20 gallon valves are plenty big enough and not so bulky. you can put in a saftey relief but its not needed for a simple system like this .a pressure guage is almost a nessesity though its good to have on any hyd .a filter in your return line is nice to. and a magnet in your tank to catch stray filings etc. you can put in a double valve or you can put in a gear splitter and have a valve at the back of your truck if you ever decide to put another winch on. lots of ways to go, if you need to make a coupler use 1.25 inside dia 250 wall , dom (seamless pipe) it is better than skeg 80 . you can get a keyway broched all the way through it will be way cheaper than inside cutting only part way through . you might have to use a flapper wheel on a drill to make the fit perfect.(on the inside)

 

[shovelheadmike]

In a previous post you had some concern about the heat generated by the pump always running. How about putting an electric clutch on it like.an a/c compressor?

To each their own, but couldn't you sell the A2 stuff and use the $ to buy the 5 ton unit complete? I really think that you would be happier I'm the long run.