m1009 cucv won't start

[Spielmannsfluch]

A couple weeks ago, it ran perfectly. Then it started to get cold and wet in Oregon. Starter kept sticking on, so I did the dog head relay. Ran well for a couple days, then no WTS light and wouldn't start on cold mornings at 45-50 degrees. Turned it over for a few minutes, wanted to start a couple times...just couldn't. White smoke, getting fuel.

Did the relay bypass and grounded the blue wire while turning the key. No click. So I changed the glow plug relay tonight. Turned over, no WTS light, would not start.

Ordered new GPs from the eBay guy...they're in the mail.

I read something about a GP controller? Could that be it? Am I missing anything? Should I change anything else while I am at it?

Thanks....

 

[cpf240]

There is a testing procedure for the GP system in the TMs, which are available for free on this site. 20 minutes with the procedure and a multimeter will probably reveal where the problem(s) is(are).

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

But I am heading in the right direction?

 

[swiss]

But I am heading in the right direction?

The honest answer is no, you are throwing parts at a problem without understanding the problem. We can not troubleshoot a problem over the internet. You need to take some initiative and go through the troubleshooting steps outlined in the TM and many sticky posts on the site to really get an understanding what is the problem. You can throw money at parts but in the long term it is not the best way to troubleshoot a problem. My first venture into the TM was frustrating and a long process. Once I did this once and continued to learn about the electrical system it became much easier. You have to get over the hurdle of working through the first problem and bam the light bulbs go off.

My 2 cents.

 

[Warthog]

First watch the "GP Module Theory of Operation" video in the CUCV stickies.

Then buy a multimeter and learn how to use it. Youtube has thousands of videos on multimeter usage.

Third - download the TM 9-2320-289-20 technical manual and read chapter "2-15 Glow Plug Module Inoperative" on page 2-62

Here is a quote from that chapter:

"The only way to determine if your glow plug module is operating properly is through testing. The glow plug module should not be replaced until the
following tests are performed."

Please test you GP module before installing you new glow plugs. No need to burn them out until you test the system.

What GPs did you buy? Hopefully not the 24v version.

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

I am not too worried about throwing parts like a dog head relay and a new GP relay at something. Even GPs, considering that I was planning on getting them anyway, even to have spare parts in the back. I had to change the air filter and the oil, and am planning on changing tranny fluid at some point - that's not throwing parts something.

What/where is the GP controller? There can't be too much more that can go wrong for this to happen. Does a dog head change often short out other things?

I have the manuals and peruse them....but I thought the whole point of this site was to ask questions from people who might have some ideas? I researched on this site why a WTS light would not come on, did the tests, came to some conclusions....and while "read the manuals" is of course great advice, I was hoping to get some more pithy advice on where to look.

Thanks....

 

[Warthog]

The GP controller is the brains of the GP system. It senses when the engine is cold and energizes the GP relay when needed. The relay of course controls voltage going to the plugs.

The controller is under the dash next to the steering column. It is housed in a plastic box about the size of a pack of cigarettes.

Start with the charging the batteries and load testing them. Always a great place to start.
Next check and clean all your fuses. Do not use the cheap Harbor freight fuses.

By you description of no WTS light I would say it is a bad fuse.

Here is a sticky you might want to take a look at:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?50551-CUCV-Switches-Diodes-Relays

 

[top_prop]

Is your truck stock 24V? or has anything been done to it like a 12 Roscommon mod, or glow plug resister by pass?

Like the other guys said... if your truck is stock take the time and follow the procedures in the TM. When you say you bought Glow Plugs... are they AC60G's (the best for your truck IMO) or the stock (and pretty crappy) wellmans?

If you are wanting to do 'better' than stock (or someone else already has on your truck) and you are willing to buy parts and tinker, then you may want to do the stuff you will find in this thread... either way this thread has good info in it too: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?63366-Glow-Plug-By-Pass-Help&highlight=

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

Cool - I will test the GP control later tonight.

Yes, 24v stock, no mods except for the dog and new GP relay.

I forgot to mention that the fuse box was the very first thing I checked....

I went with the wellmans. In a search on here, and in the common problem document, I seen they were recommended. If it turns out that it's the controller, I am still glad I have replacements.

Could be I bumped the controller changing out the dog head ignition relay. Could be a connection.

By the way....my background is military and I HATE reading military manuals due to flashback memories of sesrgents demanding that we take six hours to read instead of six seconds of "learn by doing" instruction. I consider it a lazy teacher who just tells you to read the book and leave them alone. Also, I grew up working on cars and trucks...I am just at the point where I don't have to anymore so it's been a couple decades since I was under the hood. Hence, why I wanted m1009 - to get back into the hobby. And that said....I don't need instructions...I just need to be told, "look here" or "try this" and it will jog something from my youth....

Anyway...The GP controller was also on the list of things to change out at some point soon....I will pick one up on the way.

This is an 84 with 43k original miles in great physical shape. Was a forestry truck, used little. Got it really cheap. I knew that the fluids were good, for the most part, but that many of the switches and relays and filters would need to be changed as it was all stock. So....changing each part one by one is a very viable option considering it was expected, and it is the best way for me to learn...or, refresh my memory about this stuff, rather....

Anyway...thanks again....

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

Oops

 

[doghead]

What relay did you use for your replacement GP relay? (brand & part number)

 

[doghead]

In the -20tm, troubleshooting section, it covers everything you need to know to completely understand the GP system(and the tests).

You need to test each component. There is no point in multiple people telling you multiple ways/things to check. Just follow the TM and go from there.

Have you ever left the key on, with a cold engine?

Unless you sent a chimpanzee under your dash, to do the starter relay improvement(DH relay mod), you did not create your current GP issue.

 

[Warthog]

What relay did you use for your replacement GP relay? (brand & part number)

DH, I don't know why that gets me every time. I always make the assumption that the users use the correct replacement GP relay.

it is very important that the correct type of relay is used or you can burn up a set of glow plugs very fast.

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

Went to Napa with a hard copy of the common maintainence guide, pointed to the part# of the cheapest one. Guy looked it up, said to belonged to a lawn mower and asked if I was sure.... I said yes. And it matches the pic in the guide exactly.

I think it's the GP controller. I am going to switch bypass it later tonight or tomorrow. That card is expensive. Again...the manual is great....awesome advice...but this is a fix I was plannning, anyway.

Learn by doing. Trian and error.

 

[doghead]

From post#1

So I changed the glow plug relay tonight.

I asked which relay you used for your glow plug relay, not your under dash starter relay.

 

[doghead]

Did the relay bypass

So, you did what? Resupplied it with 12 volts? Please explain(and post a picture)

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

Shoot - sorry - you're right. Same thing, though....same one in the pic. In the guide. North West one. It replaced an old black plastic*one.

You guys have good info. I just hate training manuals...

 

[top_prop]

I went with the wellmans. In a search on here, and in the common problem document, I seen they were recommended. If it turns out that it's the controller, I am still glad I have replacements.

The Wellmans swell when they over heat, making them very tough to remove. Some folks end up taking the head off just to change a glow plug because they break off in the pre-combustion chamber. The AC 60G's are newer technology, that don't swell, and they self limit (The controller when working properly is the only thing that keeps the wellmans from swelling, so if you are going to do a bypass of the controller you --need-- to use AC60g's).

By the way....my background is military and I HATE reading military manuals due to flashback memories of sesrgents demanding that we take six hours to read instead of six seconds of "learn by doing" instruction. I consider it a lazy teacher who just tells you to read the book and leave them alone. Also, I grew up working on cars and trucks...I am just at the point where I don't have to anymore so it's been a couple decades since I was under the hood. Hence, why I wanted m1009 - to get back into the hobby. And that said....I don't need instructions...I just need to be told, "look here" or "try this" and it will jog something from my youth....

I'm on my 15th year of active duty, plus three reserves, plus four at a service academy.... over 20 yrs wearing a uniform and being treated like a moron by a few in higher positions. I feel your pain. However I bought my truck because it had millitary manuals: IE they are very thorough and full of great diagrams... they teach you what you need to know, though they are written to work for folks who can barely pass and ASVAB as well as their smarter peers. The best advice is to take the time: read, and understand them.

Anyway...The GP controller was also on the list of things to change out at some point soon....I will pick one up on the way.

Its your truck, and you can do what you'd like with it, but on these older trucks, part swapping is not the method of trouble shooting or improving. Understanding the system, following procedure, and completing tests is the way to go, before replacing, swapping, or adjusting anything. Just my $.02. (and you've gotten solid advice from some of the big 'dogs' and big 'hogs" around here [pun intended]... I'd listen to it, it has always been solid for me, and made my work on my trucks go much better.)

This is an 84 with 43k original miles in great physical shape. Was a forestry truck, used little. Got it really cheap. I knew that the fluids were good, for the most part, but that many of the switches and relays and filters would need to be changed as it was all stock. So....changing each part one by one is a very viable option considering it was expected, and it is the best way for me to learn...or, refresh my memory about this stuff, rather....

Glad you like your truck. Its important that you have a love for it; mine frustrates me frequently... then I read and think through it, and its a bit fun getting it back on the road, knowing I did it, and understand the issue.

Best wishes,

Tom

 

[doghead]

Could you look at the box or receipt and tell me the part number. You(I) cannot identify a relay by its color or exterior. It is imperative that you use the correct functioning relay or you will kill your glow plugs.

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

Baby-sitting today...will respond in a bit...no time right now....