M1028 6.5 supercharged/4L80e project and questions

chevymike

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Very cool but I was definitely expecting more HP. Seems like a lot of money and work to get 215 HP. Still cool though. :)
 

Sharecropper

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I suspect there are more horses in there. Just need to turn up the fuel a bit and play with the timing. I imagine the engine builder wants to stay on the safe side till the engine gets settled in.
 

Swfb

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Very cool but I was definitely expecting more HP. Seems like a lot of money and work to get 215 HP. Still cool though. :)
There is more indeed, and in my case we have choosen the safe side. The IP is calibrated to 215bhp. I'd like to keep the standard crankshaft and don't want to upgrade the 4l80e at this moment.
It must be a dependable motor without being "overstressed" and for my use of the truck it will be enough. (For now)

Depending on the engine specs and the style of Rotrex and pulleys it can go way over the 300bhp.

Also a lot of other parts have been renewed which were not nessecary for adding the Rotrex.
Heads, lifters, IP pump, and lots of little parts are al new.
That made it more expensive

The compagny is working on a plug and play set you can order and install yourselves.
Kraftwerk is already asking when it is possible to start distributing them in the USA. I'll keep this topic updated when available.
 

Swfb

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The engine is back home again. It was brought this morning and I will make more pictures tomorrow so you can also see more details.

They have also played with a different pulley this week to see what happens.

Well, it gave 252bhp! Nothing wrong with that I think so :)
The computer showed the torque output was not steady and the reason for that is a fuel shortage. As mentioned before, the IP is calibrated on the safe side.

For now we leave it at is because I'd like to get the truck running and moving again.
We can always take the IP out again on a later moment.

Next upgrade will probably be an upgrade to a 8hp belt. The only thing we can't find is an 8rib steeringpump pulley. Does someone know where to get one?
 

Keith_J

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Interesting. 250 Hp you say? Any other numbers? I am curious on manifold pressure. With a centrifugal compressor, I would assume this pressure is at high engine speed.

Positive displacement blowers tend to give boost to compensate volumetric efficiency losses, centrifugal boost higher engine speeds.
 

Swfb

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Interesting. 250 Hp you say? Any other numbers? I am curious on manifold pressure. With a centrifugal compressor, I would assume this pressure is at high engine speed.

Positive displacement blowers tend to give boost to compensate volumetric efficiency losses, centrifugal boost higher engine speeds.
I'll make a couple of pictures of the results later today.

With the other pulley they kept it below the 1bar/14.5psi. He prefers to not go any higher.
 

Mad Texan

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The engine is back home again. It was brought this morning and I will make more pictures tomorrow so you can also see more details.

They have also played with a different pulley this week to see what happens.

Well, it gave 252bhp! Nothing wrong with that I think so :)
The computer showed the torque output was not steady and the reason for that is a fuel shortage. As mentioned before, the IP is calibrated on the safe side.

For now we leave it at is because I'd like to get the truck running and moving again.
We can always take the IP out again on a later moment.

Next upgrade will probably be an upgrade to a 8hp belt. The only thing we can't find is an 8rib steeringpump pulley. Does someone know where to get one?
252Bhp sounds great! (y)Curious to see the dyno sheets for Bhp and torque curves for both pulls. If the peaks are at low rpm with the different pulley I wonder the results if you add some fuel and use a blowoff valve. Then you could get the benefits of spinning up faster but not over boost... :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:
 

Swfb

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I don't seem to have the sheet with my end results. Pull 13 shows 210bhp 155kw and 492Nm. Close enough to the results I have seen overthere.

The other sheets shows the results with the other pulley. Pull 14 and 15. And the fuel shortage.

I'll ask him later why he doesn't use a bov.

I'm now waiting for some sensors and the screen that comes with it. I prefer to install them while the engine is still on the pallet.
I expect them upcomming week and try to put them in next weekend.
So the week after it we can install the engine again.

The system I bought and with the additional transmission temp sensor. Just to monitor the 4l80e. My previous one melted internally because a hose was broken...

 

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Sharecropper

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The computer showed the torque output was not steady and the reason for that is a fuel shortage.
Fuel shortage? Which injection pump are you running? In order to feed a fuel supply to satisfy 250 HP you may need to consider a marine pump. A 250 HP fuel supply will be at the top end of the OEM pump's capabilities. In fact I am not sure you can get that much fuel out of an OEM pump. For my Bullet supercharger project, I am having Huckstorf Diesel build me a marine pump with 33mm plunger and rotary head. The later DB2 pumps are the only ones which will accomodate this fuel supply. Pumps with the last 4 digits of 4911, 4927, 4970, 4971, 5079, 5088, 5089, 5119, 5129, 5149, 5157, 5164, 5167, 5209, 5223, 5436, 5437, 5438, and 5485 will all accomodate the 33mm plunger and rotary head. A marine pump with 33mm plunger and head will provide a fuel flow to satisfy 250 HP with the adjustment screw set at approximately half-way. Which means you can turn it up a little more, or turn it down a little based on how the engine is performing. You should also install marine injectors as well, which pop at a higher pressure and deliver more fuel.

I also recommend that you install a mechanical fuel pressure gauge immediately upstream from the IP to make sure your lift pump is supplying adequate fuel at the point of requirement. Remember to also install the isolator under the hood to keep fuel out of the cab.

Hope this helps. Your engine looks fantastic. Looking forward to a video with it running in your truck.
 

Swfb

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Fuel shortage? Which injection pump are you running? In order to feed a fuel supply to satisfy 250 HP you may need to consider a marine pump. A 250 HP fuel supply will be at the top end of the OEM pump's capabilities. In fact I am not sure you can get that much fuel out of an OEM pump. For my Bullet supercharger project, I am having Huckstorf Diesel build me a marine pump with 33mm plunger and rotary head. The later DB2 pumps are the only ones which will accomodate this fuel supply. Pumps with the last 4 digits of 4911, 4927, 4970, 4971, 5079, 5088, 5089, 5119, 5129, 5149, 5157, 5164, 5167, 5209, 5223, 5436, 5437, 5438, and 5485 will all accomodate the 33mm plunger and rotary head. A marine pump with 33mm plunger and head will provide a fuel flow to satisfy 250 HP with the adjustment screw set at approximately half-way. Which means you can turn it up a little more, or turn it down a little based on how the engine is performing. You should also install marine injectors as well, which pop at a higher pressure and deliver more fuel.

I also recommend that you install a mechanical fuel pressure gauge immediately upstream from the IP to make sure your lift pump is supplying adequate fuel at the point of requirement. Remember to also install the isolator under the hood to keep fuel out of the cab.

Hope this helps. Your engine looks fantastic. Looking forward to a video with it running in your truck.
Thanks for your advise and information.
I'll check the numbers again tomorrow. I have forgotten them. I do know it's not an 833 and I thought it is a 4911.
The pump is a rebuild and calibrated on a bench to make sure it delivers enough fuel at various rpm's.

I have got marine injectors from quad tuning. 4 of them leaked while sold as new. So they have all been checked again. I have been told you could beter use the stock nozle because it has a better spray pattern. The marine nozles squirt to one side. Only they will never have problems with clogging up because of the bigger outlet and form. He normally upgrades the stock injectors to a higher output and more pressure to pop. I thought to 140bar instead of 110. (If I remember correctly) also the standard pattern keeps the cilinders at a lower temperature.

I will check the options for a fuel pressure gauge! If you have a recommodation, let me know!
 

Sharecropper

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Thanks for your advise and information.
I'll check the numbers again tomorrow. I have forgotten them. I do know it's not an 833 and I thought it is a 4911.
The pump is a rebuild and calibrated on a bench to make sure it delivers enough fuel at various rpm's.

I have got marine injectors from quad tuning. 4 of them leaked while sold as new. So they have all been checked again. I have been told you could beter use the stock nozle because it has a better spray pattern. The marine nozles squirt to one side. Only they will never have problems with clogging up because of the bigger outlet and form. He normally upgrades the stock injectors to a higher output and more pressure to pop. I thought to 140bar instead of 110. (If I remember correctly) also the standard pattern keeps the cilinders at a lower temperature.

I will check the options for a fuel pressure gauge! If you have a recommodation, let me know!
This is the fuel pressure gauge I am installing - https://www.autometer.com/2-5-8-fuel-press-0-15-psi-w-iso-mech.html

Regarding the marine injectors having an inferior spray pattern, squirting to one side, clogging up, yada yada yada. It sounds to me like somebody is wanting to sell you stock injectors. I know for a fact that the only difference between the two is the pop pressure and quantity of fuel delivered. Marine injectors are going in my P400.
 

Swfb

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This is the fuel pressure gauge I am installing - https://www.autometer.com/2-5-8-fuel-press-0-15-psi-w-iso-mech.html

Regarding the marine injectors having an inferior spray pattern, squirting to one side, clogging up, yada yada yada. It sounds to me like somebody is wanting to sell you stock injectors. I know for a fact that the only difference between the two is the pop pressure and quantity of fuel delivered. Marine injectors are going in my P400.
Thanks for the gauge. I have to check if the one I bought is also able to show the fuel pressure. Otherwise I use yours as a refference.

I have never seen the difference between the injectors during a test. The only thing I know he was not trying to sell me them. I do had higher expectations when buying them new and recieve leaking parts. For the price they are sold for I expect perfect quality.

Hope to make some progress next week!
 

gimpyrobb

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If no one has mentioned it yet, be careful with your boost pressure. Its been stated that with stock head bolts, 15psi is about max boost. If you run close to 15psi often, you might look into head studs to minimize head gasket issues.
 

Keith_J

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Studs are an engineers decision, bolts an account's. Don't just replace, head gaskets are wear items as father time erodes precious sealing materials.
When the block is decapitated, it's a good idea to check for any cracks, dye penetrant exam is quick and cheap. Definitely a DIY option. Also check deck and head flatness.
 

Swfb

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Studs are an engineers decision, bolts an account's. Don't just replace, head gaskets are wear items as father time erodes precious sealing materials.
When the block is decapitated, it's a good idea to check for any cracks, dye penetrant exam is quick and cheap. Definitely a DIY option. Also check deck and head flatness.
The block has been checked and also the heads are checked with dye penetrant.
Both heads are replaced because of little cracks that were visible. After the check the heads were rebuild. It is definitely smart to do when the heads are removed. We would not had seen it without the dye penetrant.
 

Swfb

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Soo the engine is in the truck again. Twice..
I had "rebuild" the motormounts with fresh rubber parts. Only the engine got stuck on it while mounting it. Used a hammer, and destroyed the new mounts...
Rutjes informed me that you should put the metal lips correctly in and then I found out I had put them upside down.
Also Rutjes had some brandnew inserts available and shipped them to me.

Recieved them today and puy them in an other old set of motormounts I had laying around. Lifted the engine again and swapped them in within half an hour. Now they combine perfect with the enigine collor :)

Also the transmissions mount came from Rutjes and I will paint the steel tomorrow anf try to mount the transmission this weekend.

The 4l80e got a fresh filter and the part between the np205 and the 4l80 got a new seal and gaskets.
 

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