M35a2 block heater

[greenjeepster]

Apology for what? If the thermo was occluding the loop as I had thought my theory would have been solid. I give KC kudos for calling it in a single post when we spent two days going back and forth...me thinking the thermo was completely closed and you thinking you had direct flow of water from the head into the back of your water pump

On the testing front It would be awesome if someone who had multiple trucks in one location could set up two or three trucks side by side with block heaters in different locations and check temps on all three when the ambient temp is the same.... then we would actually have full closure to this topic. I would even be willing to donate one of the heaters to the cause.

My truck doesn't have a manifold heater.... I believe you can see in my first video that it does not have one.

If we get a day back down around 10 deg I will shoot another video and see how long it takes to start.

 

[roscoe]

Apology for what? If the thermo was occluding the loop as I had thought my theory would have been solid. I give KC kudos for calling it in a single post when we spent two days going back and forth...me thinking the thermo was completely closed and you thinking you had direct flow of water from the head into the back of your water pump

On the testing front It would be awesome if someone who had multiple trucks in one location could set up two or three trucks side by side with block heaters in different locations and check temps on all three when the ambient temp is the same.... then we would actually have full closure to this topic. I would even be willing to donate one of the heaters to the cause.

My truck doesn't have a manifold heater.... I believe you can see in my first video that it does not have one.

If we get a day back down around 10 deg I will shoot another video and see how long it takes to start.

I have three trucks - one d and two c turbo. I will offer them for testing, if this helps. I'm in NE IN, so it should get cold enough here eventually. All three have the flame heater. I plan on installing block heaters in all, to save on engine stress in cold weather. I put the block heater in the rusty truck for winter driving.

 

[tm america]

the apology would be for me and for westfolk as you said whoever thought of putting the block heater in the water pump was stupid . and you have more than proved it to be fully capable of working effectively in that location .yes i was incorrect on some things just as you were but the theory of how the coolant moves is very different than how you said when you said heat rises and it would only heat the water pump when i said it would heat it all as the coolant is all connected. lets keep good info in the threads and go back and edit mis info as it can mislead people ,i edited my post on the temp coversion and there are other posts that should be edited to.you said putting the block heater in the water pump was stupid as it wouldnt work but it does in theory and in the real world .i commend westfolk on his efforts to makes videos showing the install and the difference in starting with and without it he put great info and supplied the parts along with tech support to back up his parts he sells.and calling him stupid is uncalled for and way out of line .

 

[tm america]

you went out of your way to try to point out or disprove a already proven system and did some name calling along the way. and in the end you were wrong about how you though it worked both in theory and in how it really functions .trying to team up on or call names is not needed here as we are trying to help eachother out in the end and the way you came across and acted does warrent apologies,you back tracked and contradicted yourself and still have not came out and said that you were wrong . i simply seen a mistake that would mislead and pointed it out you could have reseached did your tests and retracted your statements without going to the level of name calling on a video

 

[greenjeepster]

I doubt that westfolk thought up putting it in the water pump... I think that the information was carried over from another application, but when it was, whoever carried it over did not take into account that the water pump was not connected directly to the head as you had thought it was.

The only glitch in my information is that type of thermostat. I say heat rises because people generally do not understand thermosiphon which is what is actually happening.

I am always very careful to be polite when I get into controversy like this. If I did any name calling in the thread I apologize for that.

I will correct the original video and any other information once we get some solid comparisons on different applications of block heaters.

 

[greenjeepster]

I have three trucks - one d and two c turbo. I will offer them for testing, if this helps. I'm in NE IN, so it should get cold enough here eventually. All three have the flame heater. I plan on installing block heaters in all, to save on engine stress in cold weather. I put the block heater in the rusty truck for winter driving.

Really cold weather is not going to matter as long as all the trucks are at the same location and starting at the same temp. The heaters will all have to be the same wattage. I know we can get the soft plug heater at 600 watt, we will have to see if we can get the 3/4 inch NPT heater in the same, but I think it is 400 watt. I will research that some more.

We need to develop a standard for measurement. Because the water pump is cast we will need to take all temps on a cast parts so that the heat is exchanging through them at the same rate. Some places we need to take temps will not be available in cast parts like the bottom of the radiator. For those places we just need side by side temp comparisons to see how much heat is being lost there.

If you think you are prepared to do an unbiased comparison and able to install the heaters lets do it. We will also need an infrared thermometer.

 

[Bob H]

..............................., we will have to see if we can get the 3/4 inch NPT heater in the same, but I think it is 400 watt. ................................................

KATS #11619 =600w

 

[derby]

The only problem I see with this test is that I have not had two trucks run the same. Some would start in cold weather some would need a shot of the flame heater or ether. I would think that to be more accurate you would have to do the test on the same truck with the three diferant types of heaters over a couple days of the same temp?

 

[greenjeepster]

Thanks Bob, saves me research time.

Derby: we don't care how well the trucks start or don't start. All we are measuring is the efficiency of each heater in each location to heat the head and manifold to the peak temp at the same ambient temperature. So we have to do all three at the same time otherwise we will not have the exact same temp and wind conditions.

Basically we need to use something like the air compressor as a control. That will show what the unheated temp of a cast part should be.... Then we start at plug in of all three heaters and take a reading at the waterpump, radiator, block, manifold and head. One hr later the same readings. and repeat on the hr until we see a stop in the rise in temp for each system. Which ever reaches max temp first is the most efficient. If they all reach the same max temp than they are all equal other than the the amount of time it takes to reach that temp. If one maxes out at a lower temp than another we will know that it is less efficient in that location.

We get the data on a spread sheet and from there I can put it all into a graph to show visually how well they are working into relation with each other.

Anybody else think of a better way to do this?

 

[derby]

Ok, I thought it was going to be a start time,oil pressure test. But I see it will be a thermal transfer type. I must have skiped a page

 

[greenjeepster]

Ok, I thought it was going to be a start time,oil pressure test. But I see it will be a thermal transfer type. I must have skiped a page

I see your point, but because we will be unable to get the exact same conditions on one truck for each heater I don't think testing it that way will be possible.

We can do an oil pressure/start up test on each truck just to note the pressure and time, but like you said...different trucks will react differently.

 

[skidder]

YOU guys are unbeleaveable a block heater is just that , it heats up the BLOCK !!!!!!!!! some are small in watts an some are large in watts, " BUT THEY STILL DO THE SAME THING" if they are in good shape (WORKING)... You guys must be engineers ,they always over do things LOL. I have worked on lots of different kinds of iron from truckes to heavey equipment an "YES SKIDDERS!!!" In all types of weather an in DEEP SNOW were we had to warm up the batts. w/the eng plug into a gen to start. so I have been there an done THAT

 

[skidder]

AN yes , Westfolk, has taken a good thing an made it better! A **** of a lot easer to install an very little mess !! SIMPLE.. AN it works .......... I think you guys have ben passing the bottle around to much just my 4 cents worth ....skidder

 

[greenjeepster]

Where I come from the common practice is to put quick connects into the cooling system of machines like skidders that are used at locations that do not have power. When you pull up in the morning in your nice warm pickup you plug two hoses from the truck to the quick connect on the skidder and use the truck to circulate warm water through the engine of the skidder for a few minutes before starting it... there are a 1000 ways to skin a cat.

 

[tm america]

I doubt that westfolk thought up putting it in the water pump... I think that the information was carried over from another application, but when it was, whoever carried it over did not take into account that the water pump was not connected directly to the head as you had thought it was.

The only glitch in my information is that type of thermostat. I say heat rises because people generally do not understand thermosiphon which is what is actually happening.

you need to go back and watch the video you did on the thermostat .i clearly shows the dirrect link from the water pump to the intake- head and shows how the flow will work.the rad is taken out of the loop not the engine block you have stated over and over it won t flow to the block and the heat will be disapaited by the rad and this is 100% incorrect.as the heated coolant from the water pump flows in two dirrection one is throught the tube on the driserside of the block into the block.the othere way is it goes up throught the thermostat housing through the thermostat into the intake. down into thehead and then the block.yet again heat does not rires and the water is moved around by covection in the coolant system .thermosihponing is a similar prosses but it involve valves and vents .it is not the same as a sealed unit like the coolant system on a deuce .where the water never travels out of its orignal container. it is just heated there is no sourse of fresh cold water coming in .so as i siad there is a full loop for the coolant to travel through and as derby was talking about how good his truck starts is very important to this thread as that is the sole reason we are installing the block heater in the first place.so our trucks will start in cold weather . not to take temp readings like its a lab expeiriment..you still have no idea how the cooling system work we have shown you pics of the cooling system ,how thermosihpioning system works and you have made a incorrect video of how the cooling system works as the thermostat doesnt stop the flow like you said in the video .please stop waisting our time with your incorrect data and theories

 

[tm america]

green jeepster we are not talking about heating the truck up with coolant from another vehicle we have power to our shops and houses where we park our trucks . we want and need a block heater that is easy to install and works. thats it nothing more nothing less.i'm out for now i will be running to my shop to get my inferred thermometer to get the temps

 

[tm america]

hey derby isnt the test westfolk did the same test you are talking about same truck same temp . this discusion is not going anywhere as people are tryng to twist the facts to suit them rather than admit they were wrong and move on

 

[greenjeepster]

TM: Lets make this simple... Either all 600 watt block heaters plugged into any location on the system will heat to the same temp at the same rate or they will not!

What is your hypothesis? We will state our hypothesis and let the test results indicate right from wrong.

I was merely replying to skidder's post about skidders... It amusses me that two locations so close together and they use very different approaches to warm a skidder engine in the winter. It was just a comment...not a challenge, not a "you do it wrong" a comment...so get off of my case.

I have nothing to hide. I have left all my posts the way they were when I posted... So anybody can go through and read what I posted and what I stated correctly and what I stated wrong.... I have corrected what was wrong by adding a video... I will fix the first video when we have the complete data that I can include in the replacement video. No point in redoing it now just to discover something else that needs to be fixed and having to do it all over again. It takes 30-45 minutes to upload a 5 minute video so I would like to try and do it as little as possible. You do not see me running through changing all my posts to make me look smarter for anybody who is reading this for the first time.

 

[tm america]

i do not believe that a block heater in any different location will heat all the parts at the same rate i believe that .a block heater of the same power will after three or hours will heat things to the same temp it takes time for heat transfer to happen. and where ever the heating element is there will always be a hot spot. but the overall temp of the coolant and engine parts will read the same after several hours. as all the coolant will be heated to the same temp and the heat loose areas are the same no matter what where you put the heater.i do not edit my posts to make me look smarter i edit wrong info so the people that read it wont become mis informed. i wouldnt want everone thinking the thermostat cuts off all flow unless it is opened when i know i made a mistake and it infact lets coolant flow wether it is open or closed.
question for you greenjeepster would you want your kids reading text books at school that had wrong info just because the person that wrote it wasnt man enough to admit they were wrong and correct their mistakes . or would you rather they walked around patting themselves on the back acting like they can do no wrong while all the kids get stupider due to learning wrong info.

 

[tm america]

any intellegent person or company made retractions or recalls when they are wrong .auto manufactures do it all the time it is done in the better interest of the general population . not to point blame at the engineer that slipped up . we are all human and all make mistakes .we also have the full abilty to fix our mistakes .there is a edit button on every post you enter and anyone that cares for the site and the users will correct any mis info they have typed for the better knowledge of the people that read it.