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M925, S-250 shelter & 5th wheel

wehring

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Angleton, TX
OK, Soni has really caused me some sleepless nights. I am laying here staring at the ceiling tonight and I thought "why not the M925?"

We have all seen the M920 Soni has built. Very useful and well thought out truck.

I have been looking for an M920 to trick out as a heavy recovery vehicle but why not work off of my M925 and add an S-250 and 5th wheel?

Questions:

1. Wheel base deltas between M920 and M925
2. Anyone near Houston with an S-250? Borrow or buy...


Justin Wehring
979 997 3112
 

NDT

Well-known member
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Just don't put the 5th wheel to the rear of the centerline of the bogie like an unnamed tan 920, or I will have you busted to the rank of Waste Collection System scrubber. (NASA humor)
 

wehring

Active member
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Location
Angleton, TX
HA!

Good one Franz...

I was looking at wheel base numbers last night and it looks like I will need to cut an S-250 down for the 5th wheel to fit properly.

I am in the desert for a few weeks so all of my assumptions are academic at the moment. I can not wait to get home to get this going.

Justin Wehring
979 997 3112
 

MWMULES

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Go rad, think outside the S-250 box, don't cut it down put it on sideways! It's 8' long only 6'wide, that will gain you 2 foot.
 

M920

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chama/nm
fifth wheel location

Just don't put the 5th wheel to the rear of the centerline of the bogie like an unnamed tan 920, or I will have you busted to the rank of Waste Collection System scrubber. (NASA humor)
Well.....if you are so fast with not so nice comments....would you be so kind and explain to the rest of us why the fifth wheel can't be behind the pivot of the rear boggie?

Just really interested in your explanation......

Soni
 

M920

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Good one Franz...

I was looking at wheel base numbers last night and it looks like I will need to cut an S-250 down for the 5th wheel to fit properly.

I am in the desert for a few weeks so all of my assumptions are academic at the moment. I can not wait to get home to get this going.

Justin Wehring
979 997 3112
Justin,

sounds like a great idea! I would love to see that! Let me know if i can help in any way (dimmensions, modifications or even fifth wheel locations lol )

Soni
 

NDT

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Soni, my comment above was not intended to be an attack or you or to be negative about your rig. I usually keep my opinions about people's modifications on this site to myself, unless safety is involved. My job involves moving superloads 250,000 lbs+ all over the US, so bear with me. For example, when you were transporting the locomotive, the trailer and load weighed 103,000 lbs, about 40% of which rests on the 30,000 lb truck. When the load is placed behind the centerline of the bogie, the effect is the bogie acts as a fulcrum and unloads the front axle. The objective of moving heavy loads to to have each axle carry as much of the gross weight as possible, and to maintain ample weight on the steer axle to maintain control. My rough calculations show considerably under 10,000lbs on the steer axle of the loaded combination. Any State DOT will shut this down in a second. In your pics, you can see how the front of the truck is raised. Again, I am not trying to be negative, just to advise others that this is suboptimal truck design if you intend to move heavy trailers.
 

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M920

Member
892
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Location
chama/nm
Thanks for a professional explanation!

Soni, my comment above was not intended to be an attack or you or to be negative about your rig. I usually keep my opinions about people's modifications on this site to myself, unless safety is involved. My job involves moving superloads 250,000 lbs+ all over the US, so bear with me. For example, when you were transporting the locomotive, the trailer and load weighed 103,000 lbs, about 40% of which rests on the 30,000 lb truck. When the load is placed behind the centerline of the bogie, the effect is the bogie acts as a fulcrum and unloads the front axle. The objective of moving heavy loads to to have each axle carry as much of the gross weight as possible, and to maintain ample weight on the steer axle to maintain control. My rough calculations show considerably under 10,000lbs on the steer axle of the loaded combination. Any State DOT will shut this down in a second. In your pics, you can see how the front of the truck is raised. Again, I am not trying to be negative, just to advise others that this is suboptimal truck design if you intend to move heavy trailers.
Well no worries.....I did not feel attacked by your comments....Lol
I just think that somtime we all are a little fast in critisizing when there are actually (contrary to popular believe) still a few safety minded guys out there that do think before they do things that could endanger others.
I to have many years in the heavy hauling and oversize load buisness and while I totally agree with you on the theorie of your explanation I would like to point out that my fifth wheel is movable, there is ample clearance to move it forward and it was actually moved to that spot on purpose.
My M920 tractor truck after my modifications has a empty steer axle weight of 17,130lbs with both tanks full.
The rating on this axle is 18,000lbs and as you know, thats all i can get a DOT permit for.

Now since im not the kind of guy that trust mechanical things to run at the limmit and we are talking steer axle here I made the decision to move the fifth wheel just slightly behind the CL of the boggie pivot.
With the load in question (the Locomotive in the pic) the truck still had 15,078lbs on the steer axle! I just looked at the scale ticket again.
Even with the Loco moved as far forward on the M747 trailer we could only get 35,419lbs on the boggie tires unless we overloaded the rear two axles on the lowboy. ( they have adjustable air ride suspension)

Also I do have to admit that in the pic you used as an example, the truck's rear boggie does look overloaded and the steer axle does look to light.
This is an optical illusion thought, due to the fact that the rear fenders slope to the rear for added clearance and the front fender is mounted with alot more clearance over the tires then the rear ones.

So if you still feel that I need to change the setup or that I'm overlooking a potential danger, I certainly value your professional opinion. It's never to late to learn somthing new! LOL

Thanks Soni

PS: The M920A1's curb weight is now 35,110lbs and in the case of the Loco load; only about 30% of the loaded trailer was sitting on the truck.
 

Alredneck

Banned
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Location
TN
What are the ideas of mounting the S250 shelter to the frame to allow for flex and such? I was thinking about cutting an access in the rear of the M814 Cab and attaching the shelter so I would be able to get in it from the cab. ( two springer seats up front ) The M814 has a double frame but its not full length, but was wonder if it would help keep everything rigid or if it would still flew to much. Any ideas ( not trying to steal a post but get ideas how mounting worked )
 

M920

Member
892
25
18
Location
chama/nm
S-250 shelter to frame mounting

What are the ideas of mounting the S250 shelter to the frame to allow for flex and such? I was thinking about cutting an access in the rear of the M814 Cab and attaching the shelter so I would be able to get in it from the cab. ( two springer seats up front ) The M814 has a double frame but its not full length, but was wonder if it would help keep everything rigid or if it would still flew to much. Any ideas ( not trying to steal a post but get ideas how mounting worked )

I had to solve this problem on my M920A1 when I installed the S-250 shelter. After some consideration I ended up going with a 3 point attachement system.

I started by building a subframe out of 2"x 2"x 3/8" angle, facing up, just large enough to let the two skids on the shelter rest inside of it pretty tight.
Than I welded on 4 angled brackets, one at each corner, to pick up the big angled mounting ears on the bottom of the S-250 and bolted them together.
Now with the shelter attached solid to the sub-frame, I welded a piece of flat stock to the front bottom, all the way across and bolted it to existing frame brackets on the truck.
This is leaving about a 3/4" space between the trucks frame rails and the S-250's subframe except for where the flat stock runs across.
The rear is now attached by a single ear welded to the center of the subframe and is then bolted via a doughnut- style universal polyurethan motor mount (Advance Adapters) to an ear on the center of the front crossmember of the rear mounted drag-winch.
This setup allowes the frame of the M920A1 to flex without flexing the S-250 shelter.
I had this setup for 8+Years and about 100,000 miles now and it has worked to my satisfaction.

Hope this helps.....

Soni
 
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