MEP 002 and 003 Type 2 Starters

[dangier]

Has anyone had problems with the type 2 starters holding up? I have purchased several type 2 starters from the auction site. I have one with 20 to 30 starts on it and this week during the monthly exercise, it chattered and ground during the starting process. It did finally start that time, but now it just grinds-won't turn engine over. I am assuming the solenoid is defective. Checked voltage at starter (24.5 while trying to start), cables/clamps are new, batteries are about 1 month old and charged. Since I need to use the genny, I put a rebuilt type 1 starter that I had for spare. Starts way better with same cables and batteries.

Pulled purchase information and there is no mention of a warranty and the purchase date is first part of April last year, so I guess that is too far back to expect any kind of a warranty?

I have one more type 2 starter in service and kind of wondering how long that one will hold up?

Thoughts?

David

 

[gimpyrobb]

Type 2 is gear reduction?

I have both as back up, but direct installed. Got any pics?

 

[dangier]

Gimpy,
Working on pix, can seem to paste.....

 

[dangier]

Can not paste

 

[DieselAddict]

You have to upload the image but the size limits are modest. The best thing to do is to upload a highrez image to an image hosting site and post a link to it here.

 

[jamawieb]

I've had particular genset's that would eat the Type 2 starters up within a limited amount of time. I had to go back to the old style and they work perfect. But I have installed several Type 2's on others that work just fine. After examining the sets where I had problems, I believe the starters are extracting to far on the flywheel and dead stopping. When they are not able to extract completely (dead stopping as I call it), it causes the starter to short. Just my 2 cents. My first 003a with the problem would eat a starter after 20 or so starts, thought I just got a lemon until I put 2 other starters in they failed.

 

[dangier]

That is about my timeframe with the 003. Have type 1 on it and it seems happy. Are you saying the starter is coming too far out (back), or staying more toward the flywheel?

My 003 sounds like the bendix is not fully engaging the teeth in the flywheel. Wonder if there is a bendix kit for the type 2 starters. Doesn't look like an isolated case.

 

[jamawieb]

Mine would fully engage, but I believe to far. You know when the starter works, the bendix is extended to its full length when starting? I believe the problem comes because the bendix is not able to extend fully, it's being stopped on the flywheel or flywheel housing, causing the starter to short. The reason I believe this was my problem, was because I could put spacers between the starter and flywheel housing and the starters would work fine.

 

[Guyfang]

Read this PS mag article. See if this has anything to do with your problem.


View attachment Starter BurnoutDED.pdf

 

[dangier]

Guyfang,
Yup, been through all that and corrected wiring on all four MEP's. Kind of interested in Jamaweib's spacer comments. Do you know if this was a general practice (adding spacers)? Had to do it on a '77 350 chevy motor starter to stop grinding.
Thanks,
David

 

[Guyfang]

David,

Yes, there was a systemic problem with Type 2 starters. I was really hoping you had some kind of other problem. Like the diode.

Here's the problem. There are no "New" starters for these sets. Type one starters were the original starters and worked well. The gov went to another manufacture, and they had another type starter. Later, in the 1990s and early 2000, the starters became a problem. So we went to a low bidder, for rebuilds. And got just what we get for taking a low bidder. Don't get me wrong, they are not all bad, but lots of them were. Once in Ansbach, I had to get three starters from supply, before one worked. The first one I got, did exactly what you described in your original message.

I do not know if there are repair kits available. The army had all the repair parts in the book, but many parts were not listed with a part number OR an NSN. One of the reasons its good to understand the SMR code in the parts manual, is because you can see what parts were stocked by the military, and what parts were not. The parts are shown in the book, but you cant get them! Well, that's not the whole truth, but to get them they had to be ordered on a special form, 1348-6. Direct from the manufacturer. Few clerks understood the form, and no one wanted to fill it out anyway, as it was a PITA. To make a long story short, when a starter was bad, you turned it in, and got another one. If you took a friendly trip to your friendly DRMO, you could find mountains of these starters. When the military started sending them back to a "rebuild" facility, we got screwed.

Below is a notice, concerning both types of starter, and the bracket that the type one needs, but type two does not.


1. NEW STYLE "II" STARTER INSTALLEDON ENGINES MANUFACTURED IN 1990.COMPLETELY INTERCHANGEABLE WITHSTYLE -"1 STARTER EXCEPT SUPPORTBRACKET NOT USED. THE SUPPORTBRACKET AND ATTACHING HARDWAREIS SUPPLIED ON ALL NEW ENGINES TOPROVIDE FOR PROPER INSTALLATIONOF STYLE "I" STARTERS WHEN USED ASA REPLACEMENT COMPONENT PARTSARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE BETWEENSTARTERS. CAUTION: SUPPORT BRACKET AND THEATTACHING HARDWARE MUST REMAINON THE ENGINE TO INSURE PROPERINSTALLATION OF STYLE "1" STARTERS!
30 2. STYLE "I'" STARTERS INSTALLED ONENGINES MANUFACTURED THROUGH1989 AND ON SOME ENGINES MANUFACTUREDDURING 1990. COMPONENTPARTS ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLEBETWEEN STARTERS.CAUTION: WHEN STYLE "I" STARTER ISSUPPLIED AS A REPLACEMENT USE THESUPPORT BRACKET AND ATTACHINGHARDWARE TO PROVIDE FOR PROPERSTARTER INSTALLATION.105

 

[gimpyrobb]

That really sucks as I had a bunch of direct drive staters new, and sold them after I got my type2.

 

[dangier]

Installed a new acvr today (thanks triple Jim), and started the 003 must be 20 times this afternoon (just to see if it would hold up). Started great every time with the type 1 starter. The type 2 starter worked for upwards of 20 times, before it started giving trouble. Did it take that long for something to change internally, because it worked good at first.

This genny is going to my daughter's new house 100 miles away. Want it as trouble free as possible. Had it there already and lost the acvr first thing so had to bring back for repair.

David

 

[dangier]

Guyfang,
Did you start out life as a 52Charlie?
David

 

[Guyfang]

David,

I started out life as a 52B. Bet you know what that was?

Guy

 

[dangier]

Yup. I attended 52C at Belvoir as a civvy.

 

[Guyfang]

When were you there? I was there in 1973. I went from 52 B 10 operator to 52B30 unit level operator/mechanic to 53D, Direct Support and then took the 52C correspondence course while I was a 621A.

 

[dangier]

I was picked up by an Army R&D Facility as a refrigeration mech and went through 52c July-October, 1981.