MEP 003a clacking

[bsorcs]

The set had not been run in a couple of months. Fuel is fresh; tank is clean. It had been run at least monthly since I got it years back. It has ~120 hrs on it...Tier 2 re-set in ~'07. New batteries went it today and I started it. Noted no smoke from the near exhaust on startup. Smoke cleared on the far exhaust [fan end] quickly but the running sound was not good...noisy/clacking...and no voltage output noted on the meter. Turned it off and restarted...same-same result. Oil pressure reads 50-60 psi. I suspect an an ijector issue, but that's tjust based on the lack of smoke at the near exhaust.

Suggestions welcome.

bs

 

[Ray70]

Humm... pretty odd for BOTH injectors on the same head ( 2 cylinders ) to both go bad at the same time.
The no-power issue is also most likely not related to the engine noise.
First, to confirm the lack of fire in front 2 cylinders, start it up and feel for warmth from that exhaust pipe.
If one pipe is hot and other stone cold, you have confirmed it isn't firing on the cold head.
Also, let it run and feel the 2 valve covers. Look for both stone cold valve cover ( indication of not firing ) or one that gets excessively hot fairly fast ( indication of injector stuck open )

The clacking is probably not being caused simply by non-firing injectors.
I would more suspect either injectors sticking open and dripping or possibly a mechanical issue such as pushrods or loose rocker arms.

 

[glcaines]

How long are you letting it run when you start it and you hear the clacking? Is the sound metallic in nature? Have you tried using a listening stick to try and tell where the clacking sound is actually coming from? Those genset have so much normal mechanical noise it may be difficult to determine the source and a listening stick may help. If the clacking is coming from the engine, that should have nothing to do with the lack of power production.

 

[Guyfang]

Engine problems will not make AC output problems. Are you holding the S1 up long enough during start up? Klacking sounds could also be coming from the main gen?

 

[bsorcs]

Gentlemen,
A thousand thanks/vielen dankes for the responses.

I fired it up a couple of minutes ago and held the start switch for 15-20 seconds to ensure the engine would continue to run. Again, only a bit of smoke from the near exhaust on startup; fan end did the usual smoke on startup and early run, then cleared; engine ran smoothly, but with the new sound [wife notes that it sounds different]. The frequency meter spiked briefly then went to the left post; no voltage production; hot air from both exhausts while running. With a listening stick on both sides of the block, the fan end and middle of the block sound a little more quiet than the panel end. The generator is a little louder than everything else. I let it run for 5 minutes or so before shutting down; rocker-cover temperatures felt the same after stop. When running, the change in sound from normal sounds almost sheet-metallic...best description I can come up with...but it does not seem tro be coming from the access cover or the shutters. I'll try to record the sound with my wife's smart phone and see if I can post it.

Thanks again,
bs

 

[Ray70]

Probably start by inspecting the generator area where it meets the engine's bellhousing.
Check the screen covering the access openings for the internal gen head bolts.
Look inside the openings, you will see an aluminum ring with curved fins. Look for pairs of 1/4" bolts 2" apart attaching that ring ( and the rotor ) to the flywheel and be sure all bolts are there, tight and the safety plates (metal strips with the corners bent up against the bolts to prevent them from loosening ) are in place.
If that all looks good, move to the end of the generator under control panel.
Remove the sheet metal louvered cover and see if anything looks loose.
One last thing, but probably a different sound, I have seen plenty of 003's with broken motor mounts and the engine sitting crooked or dropped down.
look right under the bellhousing, I know some 002's have a vertical bolt sticking up out of the frame, others have a rubber puck. This bolt usually has 1/2" of clearance between its head and bellhousing. If the 003 has same bolt it may be vibrating or rattling against that bolt if your motor mounts are broken.

 

[bsorcs]

Probably start by inspecting the generator area where it meets the engine's bellhousing.
Check the screen covering the access openings for the internal gen head bolts.
Look inside the openings, you will see an aluminum ring with curved fins. Look for pairs of 1/4" bolts 2" apart attaching that ring ( and the rotor ) to the flywheel and be sure all bolts are there, tight and the safety plates (metal strips with the corners bent up against the bolts to prevent them from loosening ) are in place.
If that all looks good, move to the end of the generator under control panel.
Remove the sheet metal louvered cover and see if anything looks loose.
One last thing, but probably a different sound, I have seen plenty of 003's with broken motor mounts and the engine sitting crooked or dropped down.
look right under the bellhousing, I know some 002's have a vertical bolt sticking up out of the frame, others have a rubber puck. This bolt usually has 1/2" of clearance between its head and bellhousing. If the 003 has same bolt it may be vibrating or rattling against that bolt if your motor mounts are broken.

Again, thanks. This sounds like a plan. The 003 has a pair of mounts on each side; all are shipshape and tight; nothing under the bell housing that could account for anything. TM5-6115-585-24P, Figure 27 shows 4 pairs of bolts; I can see only 4-5 bolts, and they appear to be very clean and snug, with the folded retainers in place. I'll have to remove the screen and try to mark 1 or 2 somehow, then crank a bit to see the rest. So far, everything inside there looks like the '07 re-set was yesterday.

Re the sheet metal louvered cover, I am assuming that you mean the one on the control-panel end of the bell housing...4 bolts, to loosen only, not remove, to let the cover rotate for removal. Figure 12 shows 2 rectangular louvered parts, but I do not find them externally visible on my genset.

More later.

bill

 

[Ray70]

Correct, I meant the round louvered panel on the bearing end of generator with 4 bolts, loosen and turn.
Should give you better visibility inside the cast end cover.
Maybe see if the bearing seems OK, not sure if you can tell much with the cover on, but look for signs of ground metal dust etc. in the area or see if you can tell if the rotor wiggles or looks off centered within the stator at all.
The 2 rectangular louvered panels you see in figure 12 do not exist on your machine.
I believe they are on the MEP-112 400HZ machine, not yours.

 

[bsorcs]

Correct, I meant the round louvered panel on the bearing end of generator with 4 bolts, loosen and turn.
Should give you better visibility inside the cast end cover.
Maybe see if the bearing seems OK, not sure if you can tell much with the cover on, but look for signs of ground metal dust etc. in the area or see if you can tell if the rotor wiggles or looks off centered within the stator at all.
The 2 rectangular louvered panels you see in figure 12 do not exist on your machine.
I believe they are on the MEP-112 400HZ machine, not yours.

I'm on it...saying a rosary re ground metal dust!!

 

[Guyfang]

If you ever see a roter hit the stator, its millions of miles of tiny pieces of copper wire.

 

[glcaines]

I have another thought. Why not try turning the engine over with the starter with no fuel so it doesn't start. See if you can hear the clacking with the engine turning over, but not firing. If you can hear the clacking you might be able to tell where it's coming from.

 

[bsorcs]

I have another thought. Why not try turning the engine over with the starter with no fuel so it doesn't start. See if you can hear the clacking with the engine turning over, but not firing. If you can hear the clacking you might be able to tell where it's coming from.

How might I do this...just skip the prime step in the start sequence? I see no shutoff in the fuel line. Wouldn't turning it over without fuel necessitate a subsequent bleed of the fuel system?

 

[Ray70]

Easiest way is to either remove one of the wires from the fuel solenoid that pushes down on the IP linkage / lever.

 

[Guyfang]

Push the throttle cable all the way in. Then it will not start.
Or disconnect the linkage at K5, fuel solenoid. Then it will not start.

Bleeding the fuel system is no big deal. Its supposed to be a self bleeding system.