MEP-004a starting problem

[jamawieb]

I just purchased a MEP-004a from GL. I went through all the starting procedures, when I flipped the switch to run and the battle switch on , the coolant gauge pegs out to the highest level, the low oil light stays on (on the fault indicator). I flipped the test/reset switch on the Fault indicator, all the lights come on and go out except the low oil light stays on. I don't hear the fuel pumps running and when I flipped the switch to start all I can hear is a click on a solenoid over the fuel day tank. I think I have a short somewhere since the coolant temperature gauge pegs out. Does anyone have any ideas of what is going on.
I also shorted the starter and the engine turned over great.

 

[PeterD]

... when I flipped the switch to run and the battle switch on , the coolant gauge pegs out to the highest level, the low oil light stays on (on the fault indicator). ...

The low oil pressure light should be on when the engine is not running. Normal. The temp gauge should read low, not high, so there is either a bad sender, wire/connection or the gauge itself is bad.

... I flipped the test/reset switch on the Fault indicator, all the lights come on and go out except the low oil light stays on. I don't hear the fuel pumps running ...

Light test was normal. With the off-run-start switch in run (but engine not started) and the battle short in on, the fuel pumps should run.

I...when I flipped the switch to start all I can hear is a click on a solenoid over the fuel day tank. ...

Battle short on or off? You cannot start if battle short is on!

... Does anyone have any ideas of what is going on.

Could be a few simple things, along with a bit of inexperience! Anyone near you who has MEP-004/5/6 experience who could help you? (Where are you located, I can't see that in the reply mode on the forum...)

...
I also shorted the starter and the engine turned over great.

OK, so your starter is OK.

 

[jamawieb]

Thank you for your reply.
When trying to start, the battle short is off and when I flip the switch to start, all I can hear is a solenoid next to the day tank click.

In the run postion and battle short on, I do not hear the fuel pumps pumping (no noise anywhere).

Yes the starter is working correctly, I thought the solenoid might be bad, that is the reason I jumped the starter to make sure it was working correctly.

I'm in Ripley TN (about 1hr north of Memphis)

 

[sewerzuk]

PeterD answered most of your questions, but I'll see if I can add a little insight!

The "click" you are hearing near the day tank is the solenoid in line between the fuel pumps and the day tank. It is controlled by a float switch inside the day tank. Based on your description, its operation is normal.

I have purchased a few sets with multiple independent problems like this. I spent just a few minutes looking at the schematics...no single fault popped out at me that could cause all of your symptoms. Your starter and fuel pump issues may be connected, but I think the coolant gauge is a separate issue. I find it helps to focus on one single symptom. Many times, when I find the problem with that one symptom, it sheds some light on the other symptoms.

Let's start with the fuel issue...its an easy one to troubleshoot. With the master switch in run and the battleshort switch in battleshort, your fuel pumps should be clicking. Since they aren't, lets start there first. Pull the plug for the power wire to one of the pumps and, with the master switch in run and BS switch in BS, check for 24v between that wire and ground. If 24v is present, the pumps need to be cleaned (I often find both pumps seized up with paint chips, sand, rust, and other nastiness). If 24v is not present, work your way back to the master switch. Power for the pumps passes from the control cubicle, through a cable harness and a couple of plugs, through the special relay assembly, and out to the pumps. I would probably start by checking for power at TB1-8 in the control cubicle, as it is easy to get to without taking anything apart. No power there, work your way back through the master switch. Power there, then work your way through the special relay box toward the fuel pumps.
Use the schematic on Page 345 on TM-9-6115-464-12

Once we get your fuel pumps working, we'll focus on the other symptoms if they all still exist.

 

[andytk5]

Following this as Im trying to hunt down an mep-004a myself.

 

[jamawieb]

"If 24v is not present, work your way back to the master switch. Power for the pumps passes from the control cubicle, through a cable harness and a couple of plugs, through the special relay assembly, and out to the pumps. I would probably start by checking for power at TB1-8 in the control cubicle, as it is easy to get to without taking anything apart. No power there, work your way back through the master switch. Power there, then work your way through the special relay box toward the fuel pumps.
Use the schematic on Page 345 on TM-9-6115-464-12"

Update: I checked the fuel pumps by jumping a wire from a 24v source to the plug for each pump and both pumps work perfect. I checked the TB1-8 connection and it has 24 volts.

In the schematics on page 343 on TM-9-6115-464-12, I figure that K1 which is the Stop-Run Relay or CR6 which is the Fuel pump diode might be the culpert, for the fuel pumps not running. Does anyone know where these 2 items are in the generator? If anyone can see something else it could be, please let me know.

 

[sewerzuk]

"If 24v is not present, work your way back to the master switch. Power for the pumps passes from the control cubicle, through a cable harness and a couple of plugs, through the special relay assembly, and out to the pumps. I would probably start by checking for power at TB1-8 in the control cubicle, as it is easy to get to without taking anything apart. No power there, work your way back through the master switch. Power there, then work your way through the special relay box toward the fuel pumps.
Use the schematic on Page 345 on TM-9-6115-464-12"

Update: I checked the fuel pumps by jumping a wire from a 24v source to the plug for each pump and both pumps work perfect. I checked the TB1-8 connection and it has 24 volts.

In the schematics on page 343 on TM-9-6115-464-12, I figure that K1 which is the Stop-Run Relay or CR6 which is the Fuel pump diode might be the culpert, for the fuel pumps not running. Does anyone know where these 2 items are in the generator? If anyone can see something else it could be, please let me know.

The diagram on P 343 is just a functional diagram; while it will help you understand how things are wired, it won't tell you where things are located, or even necessarily list all of the components. I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the schematic on p. 345

You didn't mention if you actually checked for 24v at the pump lead; what you did almost certainly tells me that 24v is not present, but I would verify it anyway.

Since you have 24v at TB 1-8, then it is time to trace things into the special relay assembly. You'll need to take the lid off of the assembly and leave all of the cables connected for your testing. The next place I would check is TB 101-3, 4, and 5. Specifically look for the lead P50L (that is the one that takes power to the fuel pumps). I have found loose terminal board screws on multiple occasions inside the special relay assembly...

 

[jamawieb]

Update: Today, i got a chance to take out the Special Relay Assembly and found the DC Relay board burned and it looks like the Crank Relay also my be fried. Does anyone know where I could find the DC Relay Board and the Crank Relay?

Thank you to PeterD and Sewerzuk for your help.

 

[jamawieb]

Update: I got a new special relay box put in, that I got from Delk's. Tried to start but now I'm not getting fuel to the injectors. I get fuel to the ip but not out of the IP. I took the fuel cutoff solenoid off the top of the ip and cleaned everything up and made sure the solenoid works (and it does). With the battle short on and the Stop-Run-Start switch in the Run postition, I get 24volts to the cutoff solenoid but then I turn battle short off and when I try to start it all I get is 15volts to the solenoid, what would cause the drop to 15volts when trying to crank?

 

[212sparky]

Here is the thread for my MEP-004a. I had starting issues with mine i hope this helps. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/auxillary-equipment/80604-mep-004a-starting-issue.html Does it crank now that you replaced the control board?

 

[jamawieb]

Thanks 212sparky, I'm going to replace the T to see if that helps. I read your thread yesterday and tried cleaning the T with compressed air but it still wouldn't start. I wonder why that check valve is in the T when it can be removed?
After I replaced the board, everything seems to work now, I can hear the fuel pumps running and the motor cranks over. I'm just not getting fuel to the injectors.

 

[majorpyne]

I just got a MEP004a. 9.4 hours on meter and no start; nothing when master switch is flipped to run.
Batteries are fully charged and there is 24v at the switch.
The thing in see is the fault panel doesn't light when tested. No panel light activate when switched on.
I did notice when the master switch is flipped from stop to run the am meter pegs all the way to the left; same thing when the main breaker light test is pushed, as the battle switch and prime switch flipped on.
Looking down from top of panel at master switch inner right terminal also has jumper to the one on the right next to it - has 24v.
Left side of switch inner terminal has 24v to it.
The DC 7.5 amp breaker below the fault panel isn't tripping when this happens.
Fuse in fault panel checked okay.
Also none of the gauges are working except the amp meter.
Any help?

 

[PeterD]

...
I did notice when the master switch is flipped from stop to run the am meter pegs all the way to the left; same thing when the main breaker light test is pushed, as the battle switch and prime switch flipped on...
Any help?

Do you have access to a DC clamp-on meter? If yes, monitor current going from the battery when you flip from stop to run and see how much. It is possible (remote) that the circuit breaker is defective and that's why it doesn't trip.

I'd do a careful inspection of the gauge/control panel first looking for shorts or other damage. Then the wiring harnesses.

 

[Triple Jim]

I did notice when the master switch is flipped from stop to run the am meter pegs all the way to the left;

That sounds like something is backwards. Is the battery connected backwards? (check battery negative to generator frame, should read zero volts)

 

[majorpyne]

That sounds like something is backwards. Is the battery connected backwards? (check battery negative to generator frame, should read zero volts)

Thanks I did make sure they weren't backward an when I use the DVM it indicates correct polarity; if backwards I'd get a negative sign on the display.

 

[majorpyne]

Thanks for the info.
I did put a clamp meter on it and did not show more than 1 amp draw??
Breaker is okay checked it and it works. 24v at breaker also.
The fault panel I now have the low oil lamp on dim still nothing when the test switch is flipped. I pulled the fault panel and am checking it. I did flip the s-2 to run and the amp meter stayed in the middle and didn't peg out to the lef with the fault panel disconnected I thought okay bad fault panel - nope. I left the S2 switch on and "probed" all the pin holes in the pigtail for the fault panel looking for the hot 24v that should be there;is there supposed to be one? I didn't find it.
When flipped the panel light switch, pushed the main contactor light test, battle short the meter again pegged out to the left. Looking inside and at the relay box is two transformers where the end of it is and the panel bulkhead next to the connection board; one gray with three holes and wire wrapped around it. Another one is next to it allot smaller black and one hole in it; what is this one for?
There is a sticky something one the top of it and on the side? Panel bulkhead is over it and did not find anything that may have dripped from that onto it.
On the relay box in the diagram I see a rheostat and switch; what are they for?
The thing is everything is dead; no fuel pump, doesn't crank, etc.
I did a direct "short" on the starter solenoid to crank it ( engine not locked - turned it over by hand ) and I get is the bendex going chunk and no cranking; full 24v at battery lead. I am going to pull the starter and rip it open to see what is going on.
I did a diode test on the diodes on the relay panel and all I got was a reading around 400 something; same for the fault panel diodes? I thought diodes when blew are open and you'd get no reading or rare case blew closed would get the "beep"
I am wondering if a diode might have blown "closed' and is allowing voltage to back feed into a circuit where it isn't supposed to?
I saw some diodes in the diagram that is there for that purpose.
I also thinking about pulling the relay box and the other one next to it and opening them up and see what I find inside.

 

[R Racing]

I'd go after the starter first and get it fixed first . Normally on mine I have to flip the battle short switch on to prime the fuel system. Then back off before flipping the start switch. It's normal to get the low pressure light on til after the generators running. Then you hit the rest and it should go out once it's running.