MEP017a Fair Price to Buy?

[ke6rwj]

Hey all i was wondering if you could let me know a fair price to buy a mep017a generator... it will start, but takes some time (hard starting). Im a good mechanic, so im not worried about being able to improve that.

Id like to know what a fair price to buy one is...

Also anything i should look out for?

TIA, chris

 

[Carl_in_NH]

They are small (5KW) in terms of load support, noisy, and provide poor fuel consumption performance. Additionally, when set in the 240 Volt output mode, it's only a two wire system (without modification) - so there's no center tap / neutral - and therefore will not support powering your house. Yes, it can be modified - but then you loose the ability to select 3 phase output with the reconnection switch, if memory serves.

In other words, it's not for everyone with normal backup power needs. I have one, and keep it around just in case my diesel genset fails - a backup for my backup.

Depending on where you are, I suspect it shouldn't go for more than a few hundred dollars. Up here in NH, I ended up paying a little more than that for my MEP-017A from GL in Maine.

They are solid circa 1968 generators - and many parts are still around; I bought a brand new carb for mine, still in the box for something like $29.

Not too portable, either; weight is more than 400 pounds. That can be an advantage if you're in an area where people steal things, or a pain if you're always moving it around yourself.

My advice; if you want to power your house, get something more modern. If you want something to run odd stuff like three phase loads and it is cheap enough, then pick up the 017A.

 

[ke6rwj]

I dont really need a whole house unit, more of a just in case situation the power does go out here some.. i just wanted something more substantial / robust than the honda portable jobs.. i also like that these are NG capable... big plus to me... (although its one or the other Gas/NG)

$200 -->$250--> $300 ?

Chris

 

[Carl_in_NH]

I'd say $250 / $300 would be fair. You mention it is NG capable, but not without either building or buying an NG conversion kit to make it so. In other words, almost any normally aspirated gasoline engine is NG capable, with the proper conversion kit.

More substantial than a Honda portable? Yes, much more iron. More robust? Tough call - given the genset you're going to pick up is 40 years old or more, and of unknown PM since it was retired. Honda makes pretty good stuff, and is much better than cheap junk from the big box store - but the Honda stuff costs more, too.

Don't get me wrong - I really like the older military generators - but I have backups for my backups, as well as one more modern consumer unit. Why so many? Because when power goes out here, it can be for a week or more in sub-freezing temperatures - and reliability and fuel consumption are a big deal when you need to run it for many days and the stores sell out of generators in the first hour of the outage.

 

[jbk]

somthing like 250.00 i think is a fair price if it runs and produces correct ac output. i use to use mine to back up my diesel. i used it for my house a few times. i set it on 120/208 3 phase. didnt realy care about the 208 i just had 120 to feed. i now use it in 240 mode for my hot water heater. hard starting could be anything from mag. points, carb., or plugs so you could spend a 100.00 or so to get it up to usable condition. 1.4 gph. full load at 82 db at 25 ft.

 

[ke6rwj]

I'd say $250 / $300 would be fair. You mention it is NG capable, but not without either building or buying an NG conversion kit to make it so. In other words, almost any normally aspirated gasoline engine is NG capable, with the proper conversion kit.

More substantial than a Honda portable? Yes, much more iron. More robust? Tough call - given the genset you're going to pick up is 40 years old or more, and of unknown PM since it was retired. Honda makes pretty good stuff, and is much better than cheap junk from the big box store - but the Honda stuff costs more, too.

Don't get me wrong - I really like the older military generators - but I have backups for my backups, as well as one more modern consumer unit. Why so many? Because when power goes out here, it can be for a week or more in sub-freezing temperatures - and reliability and fuel consumption are a big deal when you need to run it for many days and the stores sell out of generators in the first hour of the outage.

Thanks for the input, i understand your points.. Regarding the ng, but the kit does exist and its available...

I have a generic 3500xl, ive used for awhile.. Thought maybe a military genset would go well with my m37

I trust the source of the set, (old friend) just want to be sure I'm paying a fair price and not overpaying..

Thanks all.

Chris

 

[PeterD]

BTW, there is a way to get a neutral without modifying the gen set, using an auto-transformer. I can research what is needed and post something if anyone is interested, however, the cost of such a transformer (if new) would be about what the generator costs. Found surplus it would be much less!

 

[jbk]

why not just use the 120/208 3 phase for your house? no mods. necessary. with the limited output its not going to do much in 208 or 240 mode any way. now the transformer idea would be somthing to consider on my 004.

 

[Carl_in_NH]

why not just use the 120/208 3 phase for your house? no mods. necessary. with the limited output its not going to do much in 208 or 240 mode any way. now the transformer idea would be somthing to consider on my 004.

It all depends on your application; if all you've got are electric heaters, then it's no big deal. If you've got motor loads that are not rated for 208V, then you may have an issue stressing the motors that are not rated for the lower operating voltage.

Case might be a deep well pump; my pump is designed for 240V, and is hanging off the end of several hundred feet of cable to power it. Given the replacement cost of the pump, I wouldn't want to run it off 'low line' voltage of 208 at the feed end - and who-knows-what for voltage at the end of the feed cable when loaded.

So, the bottom line is know your application and loads, and decide on whether 208V is suitable or not.

As Peter states, that's going to be a big autotransformer. If you find one surplus for the right price, and don't mind having an extra piece of equipment in the generator configuration to make it work, then you might find it a workable solution.

 

[PeterD]

Two things... First I wired my transfer switch (with does six circuits) to be three phase. Was easy to do, and solves the problem(s) of compatibility.

Second, an auto-transformer, used in boost mode needs only be rated for the difference in the power not the entire load. So generally an auto-transformer is smaller than a conventional transformer. That is a major plus, as the difference between 208 volts and 240 volts is not much (about 15%). When living overseas we used tapped, whole house, auto transformer all the time. It is very easy to do.

For example, take a transformer that has a 240 volt primary, and a 37 volt secondary, where the secondary current is rated higher than the load. It is simple to wire up the circuit to get a higher voltage by connecting the primary to 208 volts, which will give a secondary voltage of about 32 volts. Then wire the secondary in series with the 208 feed into the load, and you have 240 volts.

(BTW, if you find a 208 transformer then the secondary voltage should be about 31 volts. And using the neutral and one phase (120 volts) for the primary would make finding a transformer even easier.)

I can draw a schematic if anyone wants.

 

[Carl_in_NH]

Point well taken, Peter - it's smaller than one would first guess. Still, to support that 30 volt boost we're talking a fairly heavy secondary current for the transformer.

Guess that 208->240V limitation is easy enough to overcome using the autotransformer, but don't we now we have the issue of loading only two phases of the generator head operating in 3-phase mode, dropping maximum output power by 30%? Wonder how all this looks in terms of cost for the genset project vs power output and fuel consumption for the 017A?

 

[PeterD]

If you can produce 240 volts single phase with a generator set, what you can use is an auto-transformer that has a tap at 120 volts. These are actually common (much more common overseas, where every electrical store always has them) and solve the problem nicely. If you keep your two legs reasonably balanced the auto-transformer only carries the unbalanced current, but you do need to size based on the assumption that your load will be unbalanced.

Next time I am at ESS in Manchester I'll see if they have any lying around. They usually do. I have a couple here on the shelf downstairs but I'm not sure of the specs on them.

 

[Humpy]

FWIW I just found MIL STD 1406 dtd 1966 and the engine (2A042) life between rebuilds has a 1500 hour requirement.

 

[JoeyAirborne]

Got one two weeks ago for 100 bucks near munich/germany.Cleaned everything changed oil and fired it up.Shows 167 hours of use.Another nice piece for the collection.

 

[Carl_in_NH]

They are loud, and use quite a bit of fuel - but they do work well. It will serve your needs in short power outages, but I don't think I want to take mine camping.

 

[JoeyAirborne]

Good point carl.
I ve seen conversions adding another muffler inline right onto the one allready in place to reduce the "orchestra".
I stored the MEP right under my Carport to work on it and start it up there and it is pretty loud.So anyone here tried that sound reduction and what works best?I am thankful for every hint i can grap before i plunder the next junkyard for car mufflers.

By the way what kind of spark plugs do you guys use in general?
I found out that these here could workbut i am unsure)

Champion XMD 15
Champion XMD 21
Autolite 226 (i`ve got installed on my MEP-017A)
Autolite 2226 should be the right new ones?

Got no idea why i cannot find any Bosch spark plug intel.Only 14mm threaded shielded spark plugs aviable in germany and to high prices.So a thread reducer 18mm to 14mm is not the deal for me.Even all the german military drivers would chase me using their spark plugs for their Mungos and Iltis jeeps as spares for my MEP.