svd dragunov
New member
Every now and again i get access to new veggitable oil and new motor oil. Is there any issues mixing the 2 and thinning with diesel? ive heard of problems with used oil but wasnt sure if the same applied to new oil. Thanks.
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mixing new unused vegitable oil with new unused motor oil
- Thread starter svd dragunov
- Start date
Jeepsinker
Well-known member
New it should all be fine.
wreckerman893
Possum Connoisseur
I've mixed them without issue but didn't store the mixture long. My recipe for a hundred gallons of "Deuce Elixer" was 30 gallons of WVO, 30 gallons of WMO, 30 gallons of diesel and 10 gallons of gasoline.
VO fresh or otherwise will give you problems when temperature drops below 40°F or so, perhaps not as bad when mixed, but be aware.
Beyond Biodiesel
Active member
I have mixed a wide range of new and used oils, with a wide range of new and used solvents. I have had no issues once I learned to settle those blends in the shade for at least 2 weeks, then I must be careful to remove the sediments from the translucent fuel blend, prior to filtering.
However, I have found that old burned WMO will react very negatively with WVO to produce a glue-like substance that will coat and glue your entire fuel system shut.
However, I have found that old burned WMO will react very negatively with WVO to produce a glue-like substance that will coat and glue your entire fuel system shut.
svd dragunov
New member
so as long as both oils are new, im good.
+1. I will not mix them anymore.
Beyond Biodiesel
Active member
If the WMO is not ancient, such as the WMO that others have report here coming from natural gas compressors, then it will most probably blend just fine with WVO. However, if it is black, then probably not. I forgot to leave a link to my research on what happens when you blend old, burned WMO with WVO
However, I have found that old burned WMO will react very negatively with WVO to produce a glue-like substance that will coat and glue your entire fuel system shut.
Are you talking about "old burned WMO" that has not been through a centrifuge first mixed with "WVO" that has not been though a centrifuge first? Or have you found it does not matter?
Jeepsinker
Well-known member
Centrifuging makes no difference there. The acidic compounds in the used motor oil is what reacts negatively with the vegetable oil. Centrifuging does not remove those compounds.
Beyond Biodiesel
Active member
I do not happen to believe that acidification takes place with heavily burned WMO, but it might. However, my data shows that a fraction that melts at 160F (71c) occurs, and I believe it is the product of polymerization due to excessive heating, number of heat cycles and age. A centrifuge will not help you, because the fraction dissolves readily in WMO, but does not dissolve easily into WVO, thus the reason why it precipitates out when WVO is added to old WMO.Originally Posted by Beyond Biodiesel
However, I have found that old burned WMO will react very negatively with WVO to produce a glue-like substance that will coat and glue your entire fuel system shut.
Are you talking about "old burned WMO" that has not been through a centrifuge first mixed with "WVO" that has not been though a centrifuge first? Or have you found it does not matter?
If this will help, I read recently in a 1960 Mercedes diesel manual that it is OK to thin out mixes of summer diesel and other oils with 10% gasoline by volume. At the time, Mercedes warned users NOT to mix premium gas with the diesel fuel because the premium gasoline contained a vanadium additive. I looked up vanadium and it is an element and also a catalyst that causes other chemical reactions. Regular leaded gas was ok, just not the premium.
It appears that all except the newest Mercedes fuel injection (after 2005) pumps were stout enough to handle this mix. The biggest issue was viscosity, or thickness, or runnyness or whatever you want to call it. If the mix is too thick, it stalls out and can damage the pump. This is why many vegetable oil vehicles have a fuel heater.
However, I have discovered that different oils each have a rating for viscosity.
Normal diesel has a rating of 2.5 to 3.5 whatevers, and that you can look on the internet and find the viscosity of every kind of oil.
So once you know this, a little arithmetic before you mix and you are ok!
I am also ready soon to start purifying my waste motor oil and other waste oil. At auction I bought two Air Force portable biodiesel makers, each one is on a wheeled cabinet that is 5' x 5 ' 5 ' and do about 5 gallons at a time, using 110 VAC.
Still getting to understand how this contraption works, then I will start making this stuff and report back.
I have also seen a company called Schroeder that makes a pump that filters up to 16 gallons per minute all the way down to 6 microns, or 6/1,000,000 of an inch! Also runs on 110 VAC and has paper filters that do about 18,000 gallons before they need replacement. The filters are 20.00 a piece and you need two per filter change, but if you get the oil for free, it's a small price to pay.
Right now, I've got maybe 100 gallons so I will wait and set up some 55 gallon drums when the weather gets warmer. I'll filter 55 gallons at a time, then run it through the biodiesel lab and see what the oil looks like.
I have to think I can get it to look pretty clear if it gets two runs through the filters.
A guy I know at a college says you can make a measuring device to get a pretty good idea of viscosity if you can find some very tiny drills and a piece of plastic angle that is 2" x 2" 12" the drills and some glass jars or measuring cups.
Time to use Grandma's old Pyrex glass measuring cup for something besides pancake batter!
It appears that all except the newest Mercedes fuel injection (after 2005) pumps were stout enough to handle this mix. The biggest issue was viscosity, or thickness, or runnyness or whatever you want to call it. If the mix is too thick, it stalls out and can damage the pump. This is why many vegetable oil vehicles have a fuel heater.
However, I have discovered that different oils each have a rating for viscosity.
Normal diesel has a rating of 2.5 to 3.5 whatevers, and that you can look on the internet and find the viscosity of every kind of oil.
So once you know this, a little arithmetic before you mix and you are ok!
I am also ready soon to start purifying my waste motor oil and other waste oil. At auction I bought two Air Force portable biodiesel makers, each one is on a wheeled cabinet that is 5' x 5 ' 5 ' and do about 5 gallons at a time, using 110 VAC.
Still getting to understand how this contraption works, then I will start making this stuff and report back.
I have also seen a company called Schroeder that makes a pump that filters up to 16 gallons per minute all the way down to 6 microns, or 6/1,000,000 of an inch! Also runs on 110 VAC and has paper filters that do about 18,000 gallons before they need replacement. The filters are 20.00 a piece and you need two per filter change, but if you get the oil for free, it's a small price to pay.
Right now, I've got maybe 100 gallons so I will wait and set up some 55 gallon drums when the weather gets warmer. I'll filter 55 gallons at a time, then run it through the biodiesel lab and see what the oil looks like.
I have to think I can get it to look pretty clear if it gets two runs through the filters.
A guy I know at a college says you can make a measuring device to get a pretty good idea of viscosity if you can find some very tiny drills and a piece of plastic angle that is 2" x 2" 12" the drills and some glass jars or measuring cups.
Time to use Grandma's old Pyrex glass measuring cup for something besides pancake batter!
Understand your logic. Then why not centrifuge the mix after the precipitate is created, or filter it out, at the very least? If the precipitate requires methyl-ethyl-ketone (MEK) or something akin to dissolve the precipitate, then the precipitate in any form is unsuitable for compression ignoition engines, because they will reduce lubricity.
I can't get gasoline without the octane booster ethanol.
I don't use gasoline as the ethanol destroys rubber which my o-rings are made of.
also, I did not know "However, I have found that old burned WMO will react very negatively with WVO to produce a glue-like substance that will coat and glue your entire fuel system shut."
I don't use gasoline as the ethanol destroys rubber which my o-rings are made of.
also, I did not know "However, I have found that old burned WMO will react very negatively with WVO to produce a glue-like substance that will coat and glue your entire fuel system shut."
Beyond Biodiesel
Active member
Viscosity is a good measure of whether a waste oil-based fuel will run in a diesel engine. So, is measuring its specific gravity, and measuring its specific gravity is easier and cheaper.
No filter will remove all of the sediments in WMO, because the sediments are often submicron in size, so as suggested above, a centrifuge is the preferred way to clean up WMO. However, those who have spent a lot of time processing WMO into diesel fuel will know, WMO still comes out black after centrifuging and filtering.
Alcohol in gasoline is a problem in waste oil blends only when there is more than 30% gasoline in the blend. Below that there is no problem with alcohol in the waste oil blend.
No filter will remove all of the sediments in WMO, because the sediments are often submicron in size, so as suggested above, a centrifuge is the preferred way to clean up WMO. However, those who have spent a lot of time processing WMO into diesel fuel will know, WMO still comes out black after centrifuging and filtering.
Alcohol in gasoline is a problem in waste oil blends only when there is more than 30% gasoline in the blend. Below that there is no problem with alcohol in the waste oil blend.
Your in Lauderdale? Try the boat fuel docks, many of them have non-ethanol fuel. Also look for the Conoco or Phillips 66 stations, they offer non-ethanol gasolines, do not know if you have in your area though.