New M1009, bad Gen 2? Need help

[PaulOctane]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking on here for a few weeks now while trying to buy a CUCV. It's been sitting for over a year and had dead batteries. Yesterday I attempted to jump it using 2 vehicles, one connected to each battery. The non-mil voltmeter was reading only 16 volts, but I figured nothing of it. Managed to get it to turn over at about 5* increments. Disconnected the cable connecting the two batteries to each other and put two chargers on it overnight.

Stopped back over today and got a spark show when I tried to reconnect the two batteries. I figured it was due to the full charge on the battery, and reconnected it anyways. This led to 2 fusible links blowing out almost immediately, but I also managed to disconnect the two batteries at this point. I took a bunch of pics and once I got home traced it to the passenger side alternator, Gen 2.

Fusible links that blew out and their location, then purpose (Using Warthog's list posted here):
E-9 - 3 BLU-2L 24v - POS Term BD - 24v to GEN2 positive terminal - 12ga
E-9 - 3 BLU-2B 12v - ENG WRG Harness Block - 12v feed from batteries - 12ga

As far as I can tell, only these two fusible links blew out. Hopefully you guys can help me figure out what's going wrong here and how I can get around it

Oh, a few other things. In the third picture, where I'm holding the blue wire, what is that for? Also, take a look at the wiring under the dashboard...

 

[bchesley]

Paul,

Congrats on the truck, and sorry for the headache. My advice is to start tracing wires you might have a short. I had all kinds of weird wiring issue with mine when I got it and that seems to be the norm. Get really familiar with the wiring diagrams....

Brad

 

[K9Vic]

Very messy radio wiring under the dash, I would remove all of that and if you want a radio start over and do it right.

As for the other issue, your best bet is to just race all the wires and follow the wiring diagrams in the TM manuals. That is really going to be the best way yo fix everything. Also clean all metal contacts while you are at it as looking at the pictures they should be allot of corrosion.

 

[Warthog]

A couple of things.

Are you going to buy the truck?

If so it can be repaired. The driver side alternator is a non isolated ground unit and can only be used on the drivers side.

The blue wire is used for an fuel pump on the M1010. It is not used at all on the other trucks.

If you buy the truck you need to remove ALL the "extra" wiring to find out what you do have.

GEN2 has never been rebuilt as it still has the noise suppressor that is almost always removed.

 

[PaulOctane]

Thanks for the quick replies guys

K9Vic and bchesley, I figured I would have to trace out everything on there. I downloaded all the TM's a while ago and have been looking through them a bit this evening, mainly printing out and understanding the wiring diagrams in 289-34

Warthog,
Yep, I'm definitely going to buy the truck. My dad (I'm 19, by the way) isn't letting me pay for it until we get it running and take it for a ride, but I already have the cash in hand for it.

Okay, so chances are that the passenger alternator has a short out somewhere inside then?

Thanks for ID'ing the blue wire. I figured it wasn't too important since there wasn't anything close to it that looked like it could be hooked up, but I just wanted to be safe.

I wasn't planning on taking out ALL the extra wiring, just the 3 or so sets of external lights that are mostly gone now, but I'll take your advice and do it anyways. I should've taken pics of the radio wiring setup I did in my Buick two years ago, it's beautiful. I'll make sure the new wiring in this thing looks just as good.

That suppressor you're referring to, is that the one listed on diagram E-9 that leads to the body ground?

(I added in a pic of the truck as a whole. It's on 35" tires with a 6" lift. I think it's a 6" lift, not entirely sure.)

 

[K9Vic]

You do not need the external noise suppressor, it is for the military radios and not needed. When the alternators are rebuilt, most shops just do not put it back on. I as well never do when I have rebuilt the many alternators. If you take it to be rebuilt, make sure the shop knows the definition of isolated ground alternators. If they do not rebuilt it right and you put it on the passenger side, very bad things can happen.

Since is has a lift, make sure the steering box is tight and no frame cracks around it. Check all the u-bolt nuts are tight and inspect to see if anything seems shifted. A lift is nice, but if it was installed incorrectly it can be a PITA. If it has lift blocks on the rear axle, make sure they are solid and aligned right. I also do not think that is a 6" lift as the 35 tires seem to close to the fenders, but I could be wrong.

You may not get it running to drive it, but I would agree with your dad that you should. If that lift is sloppy, it can be expensive to fix that as well as the electrical issues.

Anyways, best of luck and if it is not a good deal pass. There will always be more out there to get.

 

[PaulOctane]

You do not need the external noise suppressor, it is for the military radios and not needed. When the alternators are rebuilt, most shops just do not put it back on. I as well never do when I have rebuilt the many alternators. If you take it to be rebuilt, make sure the shop knows the definition of isolated ground alternators. If they do not rebuilt it right and you put it on the passenger side, very bad things can happen.

Since is has a lift, make sure the steering box is tight and no frame cracks around it. Check all the u-bolt nuts are tight and inspect to see if anything seems shifted. A lift is nice, but if it was installed incorrectly it can be a PITA. If it has lift blocks on the rear axle, make sure they are solid and aligned right. I also do not think that is a 6" lift as the 35 tires seem to close to the fenders, but I could be wrong.

You may not get it running to drive it, but I would agree with your dad that you should. If that lift is sloppy, it can be expensive to fix that as well as the electrical issues.

Anyways, best of luck and if it is not a good deal pass. There will always be more out there to get.

Thanks for the tips

Since I'm in college I don't have a huge amount of spare cash lying around, so I'm thinking of rebuilding the alternator myself. I see the one on CUCV electric, but could I get pretty much the same stuff from AutoZone or NAPA? I'm on spring break this week and don't have much else to do

I have a few pics of the lift that I'll stick on the end of this. I haven't looked at the steering box specifically, but the u-bolts on the front end seemed to be in order and in the correct places. I have not examined the rear end or steering box, but I will look at that next time I am over there.

I'm thinking I should be able to get it running, The registration expired two days ago and I believe the owner when he says it ran a year ago, but that electrical system sure is a disaster.

 

[PaulOctane]

Is it possible that the suppressor on the back of Gen 2 has become so corroded that it is essentially making the Gen a non-isolated ground by the isolated ground on the back of gen 2 is shorting out through the suppressor? If that makes any sense.

 

[bchesley]

I always say that anything is possible. You could have a situation where the felt washer on the isolated ground disintegrated and you are grounding out there too. I say pull them and rebuild them. My local shop only charges $60 and they look brand new. You will need to at some point in CUCV ownership anyways...

PS. a quick test at any parts store will also help you diagnose it.

 

[PaulOctane]

I always say that anything is possible. You could have a situation where the felt washer on the isolated ground disintegrated and you are grounding out there too. I say pull them and rebuild them. My local shop only charges $60 and they look brand new. You will need to at some point in CUCV ownership anyways...

PS. a quick test at any parts store will also help you diagnose it.

Hmm okay. I just got back from Napa with a roll of fusible link to replace the burnt out segments; tomorrow I will probably just remove both alternators and buy two rebuild kits. Anyone have any idea where to get a kit other than online? The guys at Napa weren't much help with that aspect.

 

[PaulOctane]

Made some interesting finds today:

• Driver Side Alternator has been replaced with one that looks just like a 27si (or whatever the correct model number is) but is not an isolated ground model. I know it doesn't need to be an isolated ground, but I'll eventually take some better pics of it to find out if it can easily be converted to an isolated ground.
• The rear battery has managed to reverse its polarity. I heard from an older guy I know that this is probably because it got completely drained and then charged incorrectly. I think that it could be due to being directly connected to another battery, but it doesn't really matter. After losing a set of jumper cables before figuring out what was going wrong, the battery was switched around.
• As far as I can tell, everything is now hooked up correctly, but the batteries just have too low of a charge to start the truck. I am getting 24v from the batteries now, but when I turn the key the motor turns over very slowly and the relays go crazy. Since I had to get going, we decided to just put it on two chargers until Friday. Both batteries are currently completely disconnected from the truck.
• As far as I can tell, all of the suspension and steering system looks great. (In reference to K9Vic's suggestion that I check it out)

I ended up removing the passenger side alternator and taping up all the leads to it as well. I brought the alternator home so I can do the component tests in the -34 manual and find out what is specifically bad in it. I will eventually do a full rebuild of each alternator eventually, but for right now I just need it running.

 

[Warthog]

You don't need the alternators working to start the truck. You will need one to turn the water pump.

Sounds like you are making progress.