New member from California needs help with registering a 1999 M1070!!!

[slogutis]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum but I've always been a huge fan of military vehicles! I'm a resident of California and I'm in the process of buying my first rig, a 1999 M1070 HET, from a fellow CA resident. He purchased the truck from Barstow 3 years ago and has stored it inside his shop since. It's in great running shape, but he has never registered or insured it since he doesn't possess a Commercial Class A driver's license.

Here's my problem: I want to title it, register it, insure it and daily drive it if i want to and pull a trailer when i want to. I do possess a valid Class A license, but I do not use it for business or commercial purposes. I'm medically retired and do not have a business. I'm perfectly fine with paying the high registration fees as a commercial vehicle as I'm not trying to squeeze through the cracks nor turn it inot a dedicated Motorhome. I want to remove the fifth wheel, install a cargo bed with a hideaway gooseneck hitch, and pull a modified trailer that serves as a toyhauler with living quarters. My issue then is trying to insure it as a commercial vehicle. Since I dont have a business, insurance agencies don't want to write up a policy for me. If I were to create a business, for the sole purpose of just wanting to drive this truck legally, would I then be subjected to the CARB and emissions laws? It has a Teir III motor, but that's outdated and dropping a new motor would be rediculous!

Please, any and all help is much appreciated!!! I've searched the forums but nothing covers my specific problem. I want to figure this all out before I buy a 40,000 pound lawn ornament. I know I'm asking a lot and I'm sorry for bringing the "insurance" topic into it but I'm hitting a wall and need help!

Thanks,
Brandon

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum but I've always been a huge fan of military vehicles! I'm a resident of California and I'm in the process of buying my first rig, a 1999 M1070 HET, from a fellow CA resident. He purchased the truck from Barstow 3 years ago and has stored it inside his shop since. It's in great running shape, but he has never registered or insured it since he doesn't possess a Commercial Class A driver's license.

Here's my problem: I want to title it, register it, insure it and daily drive it if i want to and pull a trailer when i want to. I do possess a valid Class A license, but I do not use it for business or commercial purposes. I'm medically retired and do not have a business. I'm perfectly fine with paying the high registration fees as a commercial vehicle as I'm not trying to squeeze through the cracks nor turn it inot a dedicated Motorhome. I want to remove the fifth wheel, install a cargo bed with a hideaway gooseneck hitch, and pull a modified trailer that serves as a toyhauler with living quarters. My issue then is trying to insure it as a commercial vehicle. Since I dont have a business, insurance agencies don't want to write up a policy for me. If I were to create a business, for the sole purpose of just wanting to drive this truck legally, would I then be subjected to the CARB and emissions laws? It has a Teir III motor, but that's outdated and dropping a new motor would be rediculous!

Please, any and all help is much appreciated!!! I've searched the forums but nothing covers my specific problem. I want to figure this all out before I buy a 40,000 pound lawn ornament. I know I'm asking a lot and I'm sorry for bringing the "insurance" topic into it but I'm hitting a wall and need help!

Thanks,
Brandon

Brandon,
First of all.....

Welcome aboard Find a bunk, stow your gear, and prepare to get underway


OK, with that being said, let me show you around the website.

I would recommend that your first stop be the MEMBER MAP (see the button in the header of each SS page?) Using it, you can locate members near you and using PM's (Private Messages - also see button in header) you can contact those members of interest and see if you can network with any who might also have an M1070. (It will also keep you out of trouble since INSURANCE discussions are prohibited in open forums here).

Next, introduce yourself to your new best friend - the SEARCH BOX. The SEARCH BOX is your friend. Simply enter M1070 and while you're spending downtime in you bunk you will have plenty of reading. Also, since some members have not pinned themselves on the Member Map, look for any members posting M1070 input who are in CA and PM them too. Just a little time investment should pay huge dividends for you.

Again, WELCOME !

Be blessed,
John

 

[Warthog]

Welcome to the site.

I am no help with the registration but I can tell you about insurance. The site does not allow insurance discussions in the forums. It is in the forum rules and in the stickies in most of the vehicle forums. I know that sounds silly but over the years it when insurance is discussed people get stupid.

 

[wheelspinner]

Welcome ! I would be MOST worried about the paper trail. If he never registered or titled it after purchase, it will be a real exercise in patience for you. If he is serious and so are you, have him process it as a title transaction only (after you give deposit?) and then transfer you a clean CA title.

 

[Artisan]

The SCMVCC has a member named Ray Del Pino , 626-814-2196 .

He is an elderly gent, I BETYA he can help you. No matter what he says

please try to find a way to compensate the man for his efforts and if you

hire him for something, he NEVER charges enough, a GENEROUS tip.... He needs...

He is a private contractor of sorts for the Calif DMV, Believe it.

CAL DMV LIC. # VV17807

 

[slogutis]

Good morning gents,
Thank you for your time and responses, it is very much appreciated. I spent a lot of time using the search engine but kept coming up with blanks as my situation seemed different than most. I read and knew bringing up the subject of insurance was off limits and wasn't expecting specifics. I was asking more or less regarding to the general scope as it relates to registration and the CARB requirements. I was able to obtain an insurance policy for my specific situation so I'm very relieved. The next step will be titling and registering it and the seller seems like a stand up guy and will help as much as he can. Thanks again for your input and tips and I will most definitely heed your advice. I will keep you posted as things progress and will introduce myself formally in the new members section once I pick up my new baby and all the stress dies down. Have a great weekend!

Brandon

 

[armytruck63]

Welcome! Is your truck 25 years old, 1991 model year or older? If so, you can register it as an historic vehicle. There are ceRtain restrictions, such as a 2500 miles a year restriction, primarily for display or parade use (51% is enough), and no haul for hire, though you can haul your own stuff. One advantage with historical plates is that you don't have to pay the weight fees when registering.

Edit: I just saw your truck is a 1999, so you can't do historically registration, bummer.

 

[tim292stro]

Welcome from middle California!

The worst part is going to be the registration, IMHO. If it hasn't been registered in anyway shape or form since it was purchased, you are going to owe back fees to the DMV (all the way back to when it was purchased). You should negotiate with the previous owner to pay the registration fees as a non-op. When you buy it from the current owner, you can get a trip permit to move it to where you want to keep it parked (off-road/backyard or inside) and then figure out what you want to do and how you want to handle it.

As Warthog said, can't discuss insurance - that's how we get infractions too . Congrats on finding some, I would have only told you that you weren't looking hard enough

Motorhomes/housecar are for the time being the only vehicles exempt from the CARB emissions restrictions. Historic vehicles of model year 1976 and newer are NOT exempt from their model year emissions rules in California - there was a memo put out by the DMV in 2012 clarifying this apparently (you can view all DMV agency memos here). If you are currently non-CARB compliant, you will need to retrofit your truck if registered as a commercial. This means either installing a DPF/catalyst and killing your power and fuel economy while choking your engine $$, or a full repower $$$$. You said it has a Tier 3 engine in it? The Detroit Diesel 8V92 that came in the M1070 from the factory is not even Tier 1 (and if the engine was ever swapped by the military, who knows what it actually is without looking at the emissions label) - my bus (motorhome busconversion) has a DD 6V92, same engine just two fewer cylinders.

As for pulling a trailer with it, you are really going to need to go down the rabbit-hole. In California, if you drive a vehicle 10,001 lbs and over, you need a Motor Carrier Permit (MCP) even if it's for private use hauling your own stuff - this has to do with taxes, not registration. If you ever plan on driving that truck across a state line, look up the new Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) URS program for carriers which issues the USDOT numbers to carriers (which you will be, even if you drag an empty flatbed or run bobtail). This new program started January 1, 2016 and is replacing many stand-alone state motor carrier registration systems under the PRISM program. IIRC, it's actually cheaper to register under FMCSA URS than Cal MCP (lower fees paid less frequently).

Like running off-road fuel in a highway truck, "it's cheaper" to ignore the minutia federal and state regulations and be ignorant of them until you get caught - then it's cheaper to not own the truck anymore. My , if you don't have a business purpose for the truck, register it as historic and put on a DPF. And I read that you wanted to use it as a daily driver - I don't want to sound discouraging but you know those things only get 5-7MPG (about $0.35/mile best case) and can only go 45-50MPH right?

 

[slogutis]

Hey fellas,
Thanks for chiming in as any and all info or suggestions are GREATLY appreciated! Yes, I found I*******E for the rig and I didn't need to have a commercial business to get it. They basically just cover vehicles outside the scope of your average mini van and half ton. Because of that, I should be able to register the vehicle with the appropriate weight class, "N" for 80,000 pounds, if I want to show off. After getting some valuable info from a fellow member, I discovered today that the owner never titled it in California and only has a SF97 and bill of sale from government liquidators back in 2014 for $12,000 and paid $1,100 in state taxes. The same member encouraged me to have the seller get a valid california title before I pay him and take possession; or I could be charged by the original government acquisition price of $250,000. My question, as the seller doesn't know much about this stuff, what will the seller need to do get that title? Since he already paid sales tax, will that be waived? I know he doesn't want to dump any more cash into it and lose money off the sale. I'm willing to pay a "reasonable" amount to cover his title fees and eventually get it signed over and registered in my name. However, I don't want to pay in taxes what I'm paying for the entire truck either. What do you guys think?

Ps...Yes, I'm aware of this beast's mileage and size. Lol. Thankfully when I say "daily drive" that means maybe once a week or every other week as I'm retired and live in the back hills near Yosemite. I'll also have my one ton rock crawler to tow around and I'll probably buy an older SUV as a grocery getter when I don't feel like driving the 20 tons of fun to town. I basically want to turn it into the ultimate doomsday truck by turning it into a 4 door, extending the cab, and putting a 14' bed on it. I hope to devise a way to mount one winch in front and one to the rear for self recovery. I'll eventually build another gooseneck trailer and haul it via a hidden hitch instead of a fifth wheel. Since all this is for non-business purposes and I weigh more than 14,000 pounds, I believe I will be exempt from the CARB laws, just like my current situation with my 2006 Ford F650, 4x4, CAT 7.2L with an Allison. My original concern was because of its "heavy duty/class 8" status. I'll probably be calling a smog shop on Monday to confirm, but all the literature I've read thus far supports my claims. Anyone have info I forgot or missed?

Thanks again,
Brandon

 

[tim292stro]

Again, if he never titled it, the next buyer is on the hook for DMV back fees as they will be the first ones the DMV sees - since it has not been registered or titled in California before, they will go by the date on the SF97. That can be a can of worms, I've walked away from vehicle purchases when an owner has not paid registration or purchase taxes on the vehicle they were selling. Just the back fees can be thousands of dollars. Just running the numbers on the DMV registration fee calculator using the information you've provided, you could be on the hook for $14K in fees here. Be extra careful on this purchase.

If it's a '99 and over 26,001lbs and not an RV, then: NO it is not exempt. Be careful that you don't get stuck on reading Cal DMV light-duty diesel rules (10,000lbs and under) - call a heavy duty industry truck shop not a light duty consumer smog shop to confirm!!

Look at this document from CARB. At the very least you need a Federal emission label engine for the model year of the truck or newer with a particulate filter installed $$ (needed to be installed in 2012). In 2020 you're up for an engine change $$$$.

 

[slogutis]

Hmmm....well, according to that calculator the total title and registration fees would come out to $2,248 with $1,900 of that just being the weight fees. Since the truck was never registered and "operated" until now and with the original purchase price of $12,300 with an additional $1,100 in CA taxes, it would appear there would be no back fees. If it had been registered once and never again since, I could see there being back fees and penalties.

And the text you cited for smog exemptions was related to "historic" plates of which I won't be applying for nor do I qualify for. The CARB site refers to "fleets" and the word "operated" is used often in my opinion regarding to "business/commercial" use. Hmmm.

 

[71DeuceAK]

Hey Brandon, welcome to the site! Seeing your username, are you from SLO (San Luis Obisipo) county? I spent my childhood in Atascadero...

 

[slogutis]

Haha, thank you! Sorry, no I was born and raised in Modesto. "Slogutis" is actually a Lithuanian term relating to pain and misery. After my injury and being wheelchair/crutch bound for nearly two years, I thought the screename fit well with my Lithuanian lineage. Lol.

 

[Tracer]

Welcome aboard from Nevada. Good Luck.

 

[slogutis]

Thank you, happy to be here and can't wait to become an "official " member when I get to pick up my HET.

 

[randygk]

Look up BIT program, good luck.

 

[tim292stro]

The moment that truck was purchased from Gov Liquidation and moved off the lot, it was "operated", the buyer had 10 days to register after the sale according to California Vehicle Code. After that 10 days the penalty clock started ticking. Your calculation assumes no penalties for sure - I just ran through the calculator again and added up the two years of penalties and it's $11,049. $3,051 is the current year's fees and taxes. $14,100 total, just to get the plate.

I don't recommend banking on "trying to pull a fast one" on the DMV after you've purchased the truck (if that's what you have in mind) - the consequence of not succeeding is being the proud owner of the penalties attached to a truck you can't run until they are paid.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

The moment that truck was purchased from Gov Liquidation and moved off the lot, it was "operated", the buyer had 10 days to register after the sale according to California Vehicle Code. After that 10 days the penalty clock started ticking.

In this instance, does "moved" or "operated" imply DRIVEN from the auction site? OR is it inclusive of other forms of removal and assertion of new ownership such as TOWED, HAULED, AIRLIFTED, TELEPORTED or BEAMED, etc.?

Thank you for clarification of the specificity of the LAW to which you refer.

 

[tim292stro]

CVC 4000 (a)(1)

Emphasis added by me.

"... 4000. (a) (1) A person shall not drive, move, or leave standing upon a highway, or in an offstreet public parking facility, any motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole or pipe dolly, or logging dolly, unless it is registered and the appropriate fees have been paid under this code or registered under the permanent trailer identification program, except that an off-highway motor vehicle which displays an identification plate or device issued by the department pursuant to Section 38010 may be driven, moved, or left standing in an offstreet public parking facility without being registered or paying registration fees ..."

Note that they specifically separate "drive", "move", and "leave standing" (aka "park", or "stop with the engine running").

Additional clarification/guidance to this is provided by the DMV here: "...
Registration

California law requires vehicles to be currently registered if they are driven, towed, stored, or parked on public roads or highways at any time during the registration period.
..."

What this means is that it is not legal to even tow a vehicle over the road for which registration is not paid and current. The DMV issues trip permits for this, even to vehicle dealers and manufactures. So if the current owner is not storing his vehicle on the Government Liquidation lot, registration was due as soon as it moved from that lot (within 10 days).

Paper-work city.

 

[slogutis]

I see where you're getting at and I'm familiar with CVC 4000. That's only applicable if caught "driving" on a public road or highway or parked on a public road. If the vehicle is towed, not driven, to private property and stored upon that property, CVC 4000 is not enforcible. That is what happened in this case.