New Member/Western North Carolina RE: MEP 003A

[aheilmann68]

I have a 002a that is doing the same thing where its not popping the injectors and with the lines to the injectors off, fuel comes out the injector return line. I see this as semi-normal as the injector return line goes to the IP return line. The IP has a fuel galley which is constantly being supplied by the fuel pumps and is at fuel pump pressure, what ever fuel is not compressed and sent to the injectors is returned back to the tank. That return line picks up the injector return line after it goes through an orifice at the tee at the 12 o'clock position on the ip and the unused fuel goes back to the tank. My problem (not to digress from the thread) is that I have the IP flowing fuel but not popping the injectors so either I am not developing pressure or my injectors are incorrectly set. I am having difficulty figuring out how to remove the lug that holds the springs in place. I have removed the cap but all that remains is the threaded portion and I do not want to shred those threads.

 

[ZeusDiesel]

Well, I would say that you want to talk to Jerry (Storeman). I sent him my injectors that had 3400 hrs on them and he found that most were set quite a bit lower than spec. He's got great turn around time and is very informative and does quality work.

Thanks for your insight on this thread, I just finished lining up the fly, have set the pin in the IP groove and am going to put it back together. Got ZZTOP tunes going, its a beautiful Fall morning to get this thing going again.

Storeman is on this thread, check him out.

ZeusDiesel

 

[aheilmann68]

I have dealt with him and he indeed is a great person to deal with, ordered parts and had them in a few days and he definitely undersold the condition that they were in. Very satisfied with the parts and his help and may send them to him if I get to that step. Once you figure out the IP tricks it goes smooth, good luck.

 

[Munchies]

aheilmann68 There are three parts on top. You have the small pipe plug in the middle. The large nut/cap which.the pipe.plug threads into, and the adjuster sleeve which is threaded into.the injector body, and what the cap threads onto. 3/4-32 tpi Iirc... Messing with any if this requires a pressure tester. The sleeve has a broached Allen keyway in the middle for turning the threaded sleeve in or out to add or remove tension on the nozzle spring. Your local diesel shop should be able to help, or storeman on here and myself have nozzle testing/adjusting equipment.


Zeus... being 180 out won't keep the injectors from firing. You will be firing at the top of the exhaust stroke instead of compression. Suggest removing DV cap spring and valve. Turn engine by.hand and observe plunger movement. We can measure this distance from the plunger head to the outside of the pump body to see if it's moving enough. Just verify it IS moving right now.

Zeus do you have a sliding caliper that has a depth gauge on it or a depth micrometer?

 

[aheilmann68]

Munchies. I get it now that's why there is the allen plug in order to open it up to make adjustments.
Zeus, like munchies said you can take the distributor cap off and remove the valve (don't loose anything) and verify that in fact your plunger is moving and being 180 out you should still be squirting into the cylinder its just out of stroke so it creates some nice un-burnt diesel haze.

 

[storeman]

I will post this on the SS site now to help with the thread. ALSO, I DO CRACK EACH LINE AT THE INJECTOR AND BLEED THEM ONE BE ONE, 1,2,3,4...although it was a little hard to do with the IP pumping up the drain line.

Bill,

Sorry, I've been at work all day.

First, don't worry about trickle recharging your batteries. Give them full recharger amperage,
Second, fuel return has little to do with bleeding the injectors. With all 4 tightened, loosen one connection on the steel high pressure line (IP to injector 3/4" nut) and, with your bride cranking the genny watch there to see that there are no bubbles. May take 10-15 seconds cranking on the starter. Then re-tighten that one and go on to the next. Any bubble, no firing/smoke. If you are not getting bubble-free fuel AT the injector, you have a loose connection or bad check valve downline of the injection pump.

If no fuel to the injectors at all, IMO either the IP is bad or the cam lobe is damaged. I believe the IP is good.
Jerry

 

[ZeusDiesel]

Everything back together, no smoke, but some ideas to pursue. Tomorrow is a volunteer day for Rotary, back to it Sunday. We will figure this out. Got TS Karen coming up from Florida Sun-Mon.

Thanks,

ZeusDiesel

 

[Munchies]

Zeus do you have a sliding caliper that has a depth gauge on it or a depth micrometer?
Suspect cam issues or drive gear issues. Lets see if and how far that plunger is getting pushed. Its a good test because the cam has to overcome that spring force and we can see if it is only partially pushing it in or not at all in one shot.

 

[storeman]

Munchies,
I should have thought of that. Learn something every day (or re-light a bulb).
Jerry

 

[Munchies]

Admission.
I only thought about it because I was breathing life into an 003 with a no fuel situation yesterday. Ended up being a combination of sticky throttle arm not coming up, and a ring of hard crusty sludge around the delivery valve. I was turning it over and hosing it out and thought about zeus's issue and realized the outside surface where the cap bottoms out on is a good enough reference point to measure the plunger travel. I never did see if Zeus's throttle arm is rising even after the solenoid is engaging and letting it come up. If its a marginal starter with residue inside the IP it WONT start unless you get the throttle arm all the way up.

 

[ZeusDiesel]

Sat. pm, earlier today I adjusted the valve lash, some needed,still no smoke. Did notice a small puddle under the junction box for the injector drain lines as it returns to the overflow outlet of the IP. Will check this out tomorrow, though seems to me doubtful of cause as it is on the drain side of the injectors on way back to the fuel tank.

I will check into the sliding caliper situation.

ZeusDiesel

 

[unclebeau]

Any News?

 

[ZeusDiesel]

Yes, sorry for the absence. When the site went down I got involved in my class work and volunteer stuff and the gen got put on hold. I have been trying some thoughts out tho when spare time allowed. Turns out that when I disconnected the fuel feed line (from the filters/check valve to the IP) and put it in a bucket to check for air bubbles with the primer pump running, I saw no bubbles, just fuel.Made me think "no leaks there". I must have bled, cranked, charged batteries 4 times. Nothing.

Finally in desperation or is that exasperation, I disconnected the warming and glow plugs, slid back the soft intake hose and shot a spray of ether in there. You would have thought I bought a brand new gen. It took off for the finish line. I let it run for about 15 minutes, got it warm and observed a leak in an injector drain line at the junction box. Shut it down, waited 15 seconds, cranked, nothin. checked for cracks, etc. in the line, put it back together. with a spare line. Bled...u know the routine....nothin. Another shot of ether..now the feed line at the spacer tube (just after the check valve) is drippin . Pull that, hit the threads with ETF paste ................nothin, ether.. ran it for half an hour on full house load, best it has sounded since I got it, shut down.....nothin. Time for dinner and night class..

I'll apologize right here to those who said don't use ether....but...with all the bleeding lines going on and excess diesel I have no desire to be the fiery nut on the ridge top holding a flaming broomstick.. I digress...this starting and running well must say something about the hidden issue here..once it gets started it runs great, gettin plenty of fuel from the pump..just needs that kick in the pants...any thoughts

ZeusDiesel

 

[Isaac-1]

Is the starter maybe cranking too slow for it to fire off?

 

[Jimc]

or with all the starting maybe the glow plugs are shot? i assume you hooked them back up?

 

[ZeusDiesel]

Yes, sorry for the absence. When the site went down I got involved in my class work and volunteer stuff and the gen got put on hold. I have been trying some thoughts out tho when spare time allowed. Turns out that when I disconnected the fuel feed line (from the filters/check valve to the IP) and put it in a bucket to check for air bubbles with the primer pump running, I saw no bubbles, just fuel.Made me think "no leaks there". I must have bled, cranked, charged batteries 4 times. Nothing.

Finally in desperation or is that exasperation, I disconnected the warming and glow plugs, slid back the soft intake hose and shot a spray of ether in there. You would have thought I bought a brand new gen. It took off for the finish line. I let it run for about 15 minutes, got it warm and observed a leak in an injector drain line at the junction box. Shut it down, waited 15 seconds, cranked, nothin. checked for cracks, etc. in the line, put it back together. with a spare line. Bled...u know the routine....nothin. Another shot of ether..now the feed line at the spacer tube (just after the check valve) is drippin . Pull that, hit the threads with ETF paste ................nothin, ether.. ran it for half an hour on full house load, best it has sounded since I got it, shut down.....nothin. Time for dinner and night class..

I'll apologize right here to those who said don't use ether....but...with all the bleeding lines going on and excess diesel I have no desire to be the fiery nut on the ridge top holding a flaming broomstick.. I digress...this starting and running well must say something about the hidden issue here..once it gets started it runs great, gettin plenty of fuel from the pump..just needs that kick in the pants...any thoughts

ZeusDiesel

 

[ZeusDiesel]

Yeh, I hooked em up...disconnected....hooked up.checked em with an infrared therm..they're still glowing...batteries got a good charge and cranked like new
ZD

 

[storeman]

ZD,

Whatever the real problem, I'm VERY GLAD that when it ran, it ran better than ever before. Have been becoming a bit paranoid here wondering what I could have done wrong, particularly after checking everything twice.

Hang in there Bill. You and the wizards of smart here will figure it out.

Jerry

 

[ZeusDiesel]

Thanks Jerry, lookin forward to that celebration. Engine actually sounds smooth.Any thoughts what this extra kick in the pants means...is it a lack of compression in the IP (worn @ 3400 hrs??) lack of compression in the engine..is the injection pressure setting too high?...is something sticking in the IP (plunger?..would a big dose of PB Blaster in the IP help?)

Bill

 

[storeman]

Bill,
In my opinion, your IP and injectors are fine or, once started, you would not get the runs under load that you have gotten. Your glow plugs may not be up to par. Possible low engine compression or starter not turning fast enough. Others with more engine experience will likely have suggestions.
Jerry