Oil Pan Location For Installing A Mechanical Oil Temp Sensor

[SasquatchSanta]

Does anyone know the best "un-obstructed" place on an M35 (LDT465) oil pan to install a sending unit for a mechanical oil temperature gauge?

This may sound like a silly question but I'm going to install an oil temp sending unit on my Deuce without removing the pan and I don't know if there are any baffles or partitions in the pan. If there are any I want to avoid the area. My fear is that I will drill into the pan
and hit a baffel or "something".

If anyone has a pan they could take a look at and advise where a clear and un-obstructed location to locate a sending unit would be I would appreciate it. Better yet --- a picture is worth a thousand words.

I've removed the fan from my bobbed deuce and installed an electric fan that comes on at 195 degrees and off at 175. With the standard winter front my truck is heating to 180 degrees which means it's bumping up against the thermostat and the thermostat is controlling the temperature. When the weather gets down around zero I have to shut the flaps on the winter front.

In the summer, without the winter front, the temp gets and stays around 190 to 195 degrees. I've already installed a mechanical water temp gauge and I'm getting ready to install a mechanical oil temp gauge so I can keep track of oil temps in the summer.

I've recently installed a new, less restrictive electric radiator fan mount that hopefully will allow the engine to run a little cooler in the summer. I would feel a lot better if the thermostat was able to control the temp (@180 degrees) with the fan off.

Thanks

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Oil Pan Location For Installing A Mechanical Oil Temp Se

Interesting project Ernie, I have a loose oil pan and can get you pictures later today.
Why not put the temp sending unit in the port at the oil cooler exit, where an oil sampler valve would normally be installed?

What's the current draw of the fan?

 

[devilman96]

RE: Oil Pan Location For Installing A Mechanical Oil Temp Se

THere are several ports on the engine, two or three up around the filter area which are NPT that a temp sending unit could be mounted in... Be a lot eaiser than trying to weld a bung into a attached oil pan on a truck.

 

[cranetruck]

OIl pan and oil pump pictures. The pump is within the deep part of the pan.

It's not a good idea to drill into the oil pan, metal shavings could get caught in the pump. Use a punch if you must make a hole.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Bjorn ... Devilman --- Thanks for the response also for the photos Bjorn.

I am also concerned about cutting into and welding on a pan while it is on an engine but the loggers up here in Northeast Minnesota seem to think nothing of it. They say all the shavings come out with an oil flush. It worries me. Anyway, your comments about plumbing the sensor into an area other than the pan sounds a lot more feisible.

I want to choose a place that best indicates what is going on inside the pan (at the bearing journals). Is there a consensus as to the best place to tap into?

On another note --- does anyone know what is available (that will fit a deuce) to keep the batteries worm?

Bjorn .... The fan is a Spal USA #30102540 VA-18-BP70LL-86S Fan (16" HP) (16" Dia - 24 Volt) and pulls 9.6 Amps.

I have doubts about the 16" "sucker" fan configuration that I'm using being adequate for a standard 6x6 deuce. My 4x4 is never loaded and is boarderline temperature wise on a hot "Minnesota" summer day. I drove down to Minneaspolis last summer to pick up an M105 trailer and with the trailer in tow and the fan on water temps stayed around 195 degrees. For a couple of hours, while having to keep up with rush hour traffic, I constantly feared I would run out of cooling capacity. I Luckily I didn't. After the sun went down the 180 degree thermostat was able to control water temp with the fan off. (In the summer I don't run a winter front). Towing the empty M105 definately made a difference in the operating temperature.

As mentioned earlier, I have since installed a new, less restrictive fan mount that hopefully will lower summer operating temps. If not, I will have to re-install the standard fan for summer driving and remove it again in the fall. Even if this is the case, the electric fan project is a success. It allows the engine to heat up in the winter, the truck runs a LOT beter, the cab is quieter, wet stacking is all but eliminated and I'm getting between 11-1/2 and 12 MPG at reasonable (rural) driving speeds.

 

[devilman96]

Directly under the oil cooler you have 2 plugs... One is your bypass valve for the cooler assembly... the one behind it (closest to the block) is a square head plug with 3/4 NPT... That would prolly be the easiest location for installing the temp sensor and would give you oil temp going to the bearings.

As for fans... if you have capacity problems consider doing a dual or tri fan set up... Multiple smaller fans are more efficient than a single fan is. I still need to get more drive time on mine but at idle for an hour in 97 degree heat they cycle very efficiently.

 

[Floridianson]

Santa If you do put one in the pan please let us know what temp's are. I still feel that if someone were to run Deuce with a full load at speed that the temp's will be close 240-250.
I have two oil tem. gages on my offshore go fast. I see what the pan is and after cool temp. Both temp's I feel are good to know. Thanks James

 

[OPCOM]

nice setup with those fans! with copper at $2.50/lb.. yow!

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Devilman ... Thanks for the info on a possible location for an oil temp sensor. This would certainly be a lot easier place to mount the sensor.

My concern is the spread between the temp in the pan and the temp coming out of the cooler.

Do you know if the cooler discharges directly to the oil pump or if it discharges in the pan and then the pump sumps from the pan resevoir?

My concern is that temps in the pan could be appreciably higher than at the cooler and that the oil will break down.

If the spread isn't all that great ---- no problem.

It's really a nice set-up the way you've configured the fans.

Do you get enough free flow air at highway speeds to run without the fans?

I originally considered using multiple inboard (puller) fans. No doubt, what you've done is hands down superior. I took the easier, cheaper way.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Floridianson ... What is the normal temp spread between the oil pan and the cooler?

Thanks

 

[devilman96]

nice setup with those fans! with copper at $2.50/lb.. yow!

Nup thats 14ga steel not copper... its just the primer that was put in place before tack welding to the original shroud walls so the inside wouldn't be bare.

Do you get enough free flow air at highway speeds to run without the fans?

The little sneaking out on the road (still waiting on my tag) that I've done says yes... The pic is misleading as the fan plate is about 1 inch off of the core... I have a AC so I needed the air movement which is what prompted the radical design. I am using a 185* switch mounted in the bottom of the radiator, my fans cycle about 30% of the time pulling about 3750 CFM, it cools the tank in about 50 seconds... With the engine good and hot I can still block off 2/3's of the front and maintain a temp of 190* with out issue. If I didn't have the AC I would have used 1 12" and one 10"... The three pictured are all 10's.

By the by its good to see you around... been a while! How is your milage after installing the 395's?

Read through this thread I think it will answer a lot of your questions on the oil system... its long but covers most everything.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index....ue+valve&sid=c15a8cb47db6e12303e3f72f0213c1cf

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Devilman .... Wow!

Thanks for the link to research on the oil filter project. You've done your homework Pligrim. Very impressive!

I stayed up till 5:AM reading the thread --- couldn't stop!

As you may or may not remember, I'm up here in the Forstbite Falls area on Northern Minnesota therefore I'm contending with extreme sub-zero enviromental conditions.

After last nights reading I've decided not to crank up "Rosie" until the weather breaks in April. Pencil me in for one of your filter kits. I see this as an absolute necessity. I also want to install a bypass filter and a pre-lub system. Let me know when you are ready to conduct commerce.

I like the idea of the air tank pre-lube system. I'm thinking it "might" fit somewhere up around the compressor where all the plumbing lines would be short. My only fear / concern is loss of air pressure after a truck has been setting for a while.

In reading the thread --- I'm going to go back and re-read it again tonight --- this time taking notes --- it appears I can indeed plumb the mechanical oil temp sending unit into one of the access points in the oil cooler area without fear of getting a reading that is "too" far off of what the temp in the pan is. Like I said, I've got to go back and re-read the thread but I'm thinking the oil sampling petcock is the "hot" (pre-cooler) side that would most accurately reflect oil pan temps. If Correct, readings from this area would most accurately indicate if I was approaching 220 (oil breakdown) temps.

Perhap a "T" into the oil sample petcock port would make it possible to tie in the temp gauge sensor AND the feed source for the air activated pre-lube system!?
If I'm thinking clearly, the pre-lub system would discharge "inject" into the 1/2" NPT port behind the compressor / at the front of the existing oil filter canister housing.

BUT WAIT!!! Will your system eliminate the current oil filter canister housing? Guess I'd better wait for "Devilman Engineering" to render the final product <grinning>

There also has to be a place to tie in the Amsoil (or other) bypass filter asembly.

Before next winter arrives I'm going to do a lot winter friendly modifying including a coolant (tank) heater to compliment the freeze plug block heater, oil pan (oil) heater and battery blanket heaters. I going to mount the batteries in the cab under the seat where they will be out of the wind. If you know where I can locate an under seat "artic kit" battery box please let me know.

Concerning fuel mileage. It's hard to tell because of the cold weather. I haven't checked lately --- probably under ten. last summer the best I believe I got was
12.5 MPG. I hear of guys getting 13 with un-cut deuces and don't know how they are doing it. My pump is stock.

 

[Floridianson]

I don't know was hopeing you were going to take both and tell me.
On the go fast gas engine wot 5600 rpm oil temp in pan 260* after cooler 190*.

 

[tbrenner]

Santa

BUT WAIT!!! Will your system eliminate the current oil filter canister housing? Guess I'd better wait for "Devilman Engineering" to render the final product

I'm looking at machining an adapter plate that will go in place of the the 2 canisters and have an "in" and "out" port to run to a remote filter. Also looking at machining a remote filter mount. I think I could do this a few bucks cheaper than buying one. Just waiting for my EUC to clear so I can get my truck to take a look at all of this. With everyones "oil systems" I think everyone will find something they like.

The days of the canister are numbered!

 

[houdel]

Santa
I'm looking at machining an adapter plate that will go in place of the the 2 canisters and have an "in" and "out" port to run to a remote filter. Also looking at machining a remote filter mount. I think I could do this a few bucks cheaper than buying one. Just waiting for my EUC to clear so I can get my truck to take a look at all of this. With everyones "oil systems" I think everyone will find something they like. The days of the canister are numbered!

The remote filters mounted right side down should solve the dry start problem. The only problem is finding a place to mount them, especially in a heater equipped truck (unless the heater is mounted entirely inside the truck, which is a whole nother issue.)

As for the oil flow question, my understanding is oil flows from the oil pump, then to the filters, then to the oil cooler, then to the engine oil galleries. If anyone disagrees, feel free to correct me.

BTW, if you are SERIOUS about the remote filter project, I have of couple of spare engines sitting here on the ground. I COULD send you an oil filter/cooler assembly off one of my spare engines (you pay the round trip freight) to experiment on, but you'd better be pretty damn sure you can come up with a GOOD solution!

 

[Floridianson]

The remote filters can be mounted anywhere. They can lay anyway they want up side down down side up, side ways. Just when you go to change the filters if you could release a single bolt that holds the manifold down then turn it to the threads up it will just make for a cleaner oil filter change.
I was thinking about a bypass filter system but I just don't think I will ever realy run my truck enough to do any filtering good.
I will keep looking at doing away with stock cans and having twin spin on's.
Please someone make a plate that bolts on the stock base.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Lee --- Don't know if your 1 Feb 8:33 PM post was to me or tbrener --- perhaps it was to all.

I don't have the resources or contacts to do machining nor the time to do the research that I feel would be needed to do justice to the project. I'm looking for solutions --- a pre-built "kit package".

I remember several months ago reading a thread where you had spent quite a bit of time doing (good work) research on filters therefore you know how involved someone has to be to properly address this problem.

Devilman seems (my opinion) to be the current maven on the high art of Deuce oil filtration. I'm sure we both agree that on soemthing as critical as major surgery on an oil system it would be best to deal with a surgeon that not only understood the "what" but the "why". This falls in line with your "but you'd better be pretty darn sure you can come up with a GOOD solution!" comment.

I've got a couple of months before spring thaw. I hope someone will come up with a viable solution by them.

 

[houdel]

Ernie - You were NOT the intended recipient of my reply. Tbrenner is the one planning on doing the machine work to come up with a suitable adapter unit. As soon as possible after my wife gets out of the hospital, I will send him a spare oil filter base/oil cooler unit to experiment with. Hopefully he will be able to come up with an alternative to solve the "dry start" situation without going to a pre-lube system.