Painted M1009 with Waterborn CARC

[101coolcars]

So we posted this thead to show that a couple of guys in just a few hours paint their truck with mil spec paint. It is possible with readily available safety gear and a booth rental to renew the appearance of a collectable military vehicle. The products are not radio- active or anything. Have fun

Just dont drink the paint.

 

[chevyrac66]

ok ok ok guys easy does it....... Forced air respirators are nice.. and they can be better.. they can also be worse just like any product out there. I feel extremely comfortable using my regular respirator in the booth with this product and feel that it was adequate protection for the job. I will be exposed to this product much more than the average hobbist and do feel strongly about PPE. I always use everything I can to be safe and to protect myself from any long term exposure. I've used the forced air and find it cumbersome and difficult to use. Also the product I used seemed to let some "fumes" into the hood. IE I could smell the paint in the booth. (this could be from many different things such as improper fitment and improper fresh air ventilation) With my respirator on and my paint suit I feel comfortable and safe. It's all about what the person spraying the paint wants. They should see what works best for them and what tools they have access to. IN GENERAL: don't huff the paint don't do stuff your not supossed to with it and you'll be fine!

Now back to regular programming....... This product looks even better after a few nice days in the sun and as it's reaching full cure. It's become extremely durable already and the paint color is absolutly perfect! Couldn't ask for more outta this stuff!!!

 

[popacom]

We refinished about 125 or so FLA HUMMV's where I work all with waterbourne CARC. The last ones we did we used the Sherwin Williams coating worked the best! We also used Hentzen ,main warning I'll give is MIX PRECISELY!!!!! to much H2O and you"ll get to see paint cry. Also I've shot it outside in good weather with good results.
One other word of advice avoid shooting when its raining or extremely humid as this tends to effect flash/cure times greatly.

popacom

 

[stumps]

I'm not trying to raise a ruckus, or tell anyone what to do. I am trying to find out some information.

I already know exactly what isocyanates are, and what they do. I got told the entire story from a first hand participant in the world's first mass isocyanate exposure problem, over at WR Grace. Parts per billion exposures were enough to set sensitized persons into respiratory distress... a severe asthma like reaction.

The MSDS that Sherwin Williams has on its website is only for the Part A, base material. They do not mention isocyanates in the Part A base material, so I am hoping that they have done something to eliminate the need for the isocyanates... but I don't think that is at all likely.

Sherwin Williams does not seem to have the MSDS for the catalyst, part B, which is where the isocyanate exists in the regular two part CARC paint.

Most people are not bothered by their initial exposures to isocyanates. Most people do develop a progressive sensitivity from exposure to isocyanates. And most pro painters find that they soon can't paint with urethanes. As a friend who was an old painter once told me, there are no old Imron painters in the business. Imron took my dad down the first time he painted with it. He was using just the sort of NIOSH organic vapor mask the MSDS talked of. He was painting a car outdoors. I don't want to find out if I inherited the same sensitivity. Hence my request for information.

-Chuck

 

[101coolcars]

I'm not trying to raise a ruckus, or tell anyone what to do. I am trying to find out some information.

I already know exactly what isocyanates are, and what they do. I got told the entire story from a first hand participant in the world's first mass isocyanate exposure problem, over at WR Grace. Parts per billion exposures were enough to set sensitized persons into respiratory distress... a severe asthma like reaction.

The MSDS that Sherwin Williams has on its website is only for the Part A, base material. They do not mention isocyanates in the Part A base material, so I am hoping that they have done something to eliminate the need for the isocyanates... but I don't think that is at all likely.

Sherwin Williams does not seem to have the MSDS for the catalyst, part B, which is where the isocyanate exists in the regular two part CARC paint.

Most people are not bothered by their initial exposures to isocyanates. Most people do develop a progressive sensitivity from exposure to isocyanates. And most pro painters find that they soon can't paint with urethanes. As a friend who was an old painter once told me, there are no old Imron painters in the business. Imron took my dad down the first time he painted with it. He was using just the sort of NIOSH organic vapor mask the MSDS talked of. He was painting a car outdoors. I don't want to find out if I inherited the same sensitivity. Hence my request for information.

-Chuck

Why dont you do a research thread on the enviromental issues with isocyantes. Maybe its possible to have yourself tested if you are that concerned, you could post the results

your comment that most painters soon can't paint with urethanes in BS IMO. My entire mixing bank is Dupont urethanes, has been for 20 years. seems like ruckus to me


101coolcars

 

[stumps]

Just to add to the information:

I was over at WR Grace's site, and they claim that although the NIOSH/MHSA organic respirator cartridges are not approved for isocyanate exposure, they do work very well for individuals that are not already hypersensitive to isocyanates. The problem that prevents NIOSH/MHSA approval is that there is no warning when the cartridges stop working. The level where isocyanate products are first detectable by smell is many times greater the PEL (permissible exposure level) for isocyanates.

I would guess that a safe combination would be to use adequate ventilation, always start with a fresh respirator cartridge, and to swap them out frequently.... how frequently is, of course, the million dollar question.

-Chuck

 

[Green_gator]

The job looks great on that 1009. Can you post some pictures once it is completely set and put back together. The ability to get it into a normal booth is a nice advantage to the CUCV versus my Shop Van.

 

[mistaken1]

Part B MSDS can be found here:

Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) - Sherwin-Williams

Sherwin-Williams Sher-Link

http://sherlink2.sherwin.com/sher-l...th=/ecomm_apps/ecommerce/temp/sher-link/msds/


What about the single component CARC? How easy is it to work with?

 

[Nonotagain]

Part B MSDS can be found here:

What about the single component CARC? How easy is it to work with?

The Mil-Dtl-53039 single component CARC is very easy to work with. It dries fast and you can save any leftover paint for later use.

If you go with the single componen version make sure to use some type of shielding gas (argon or nitrogen) to blanket the un-used portion or it will start skimming over in the can. Also, if you use a thinner, the thinner needs to be a urethane grade thinner. Urethane grade thinners contain little if any moisture which will react with the coating.

 

[stumps]

First let me say, that urethanes do some beautiful things. Real CARC just looks so right on these trucks... way better than the pretenders... It is definitely worth being able to use the paint safely.

I was in discussion with another member that works with those that routinely paint with urethanes, and he reminded me of a few things:

First, my experiences with Imron come from the early '70s when respirator use among painters was as rare as hens teeth... dust masks were the norm. Back in those days, painters that used Imron were exposed to so much isocyanate, for such long periods of time, that they quickly developed sensitivity. Today, respirator use is the norm, organic cartridges that are good with isocyanates are cheap and readily available, and careful professional painters can go their entire lives following safety routines, and never develop sensitivity. Very good news!

Second, responsible organizations that use urethanes, train their people to use the safety equipment, set standards on the maximum time a worker may be exposed, and a cartridge may be used, and test their workers, and cartridges, for problems. A worker that is getting unsafe exposure, or is developing sensitivity, will be discovered early. Also very good news!

I am changing my thoughts towards CARC spraying by hobbyists. I have come to the conclusion, that the infrequency of exposure, and the proper use of high quality NIOSH/MHSA organic cartridges, and the use of Tyvek painter's suits, is easily within anyone's capability.

A couple of warnings, however: First, if you can smell paint, you probably have greatly exceeded the PEL for isocyanate. You must wear your respirator the entire time you are around the uncured paint. Second, make sure your respirator fits properly, facial hair isn't letting it leak, and always start with a brand new cartridge. Third, keep an adequate supply of filtered fresh air coming into your paint booth. Skin exposure, is to be avoided too!

Thanks to all for showing off their beautiful results, and prompting me to reinvestigate urethane safety. I apologize for hijacking the thread.

-Chuck

 

[Warthog]

Any updated pictures of the finished product?

 

[Keith_J]

You can go here to get the msds sheets ....

Military - Markets - Products - Product Finishes

Two component waterborne carc

MIL-DTL-64159, Type II - Products - Product Finishes

Wow, no toluene or methylene diphenyl diisocyanates!!! That means no need for airline respirators! These were the extremely toxic components of earlier solvent-borne polyurethanes.

Polyurethanes are typically products of reaction between a double alcohol (diol, HO-R-OH) and a diisocyanate (O=C=N-R-N=C=O). In traditional solvent CARC, MDI and/or TDI were used.

 

[stumps]

Wow, no toluene or methylene diphenyl diisocyanates!!! That means no need for airline respirators! These were the extremely toxic components of earlier solvent-borne polyurethanes.

Polyurethanes are typically products of reaction between a double alcohol (diol, HO-R-OH) and a diisocyanate (O=C=N-R-N=C=O). In traditional solvent CARC, MDI and/or TDI were used.

Without the isocyanate you don't have urethane.

The MSDS is for Part A only. Part B, the catalyst, has the diisocyanate in it.

-Chuck

 

[Keith_J]

Without the isocyanate you don't have urethane.

The MSDS is for Part A only. Part B, the catalyst, has the diisocyanate in it.

-Chuck

TDI/MDI have appreciable vapor pressures and using spraying equipment, levels are potentially problematic. Furthermore, the relatively low molecular weights of these isocyanates means activated carbon filtration isn't effective.

With the newer CARC, the diisocyanates are much larger molecular weight and pre-polymerized, lowering the vapor pressure. Furthermore, any diisocyanate vapor is easier to remove with organic vapor cartridges.

This is what I learned from a chemist in the polyurethane industry. I would imagine it is similar in the coatings industry.

 

[chevyrac66]

I got some pics here somewhere... Ill post them asap... Sorry...