Pulling engine and transmission to insulate firewall?

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alpine44

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Can the engine and transmission of a M1009 be pulled together from the front if the front grille assembly, hood, and both outer and inner fenders have been removed?

I removed the entire front grille assembly to install a condenser for air conditioning and I am tempted to add a day or two to the project for insulating the firewall and the floor above the transmission if the engine and transmission can be pulled together. This would also be a good opportunity to change the engine mounts.

I can take the transfer case off from under the truck but I am not trying to get the transmission out from below without a lift.
 
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Gunfreak25

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Yes, quite easily if you've taken off the whole front clip. I think it would be time well spent.

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alpine44

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Yes, quite easily if you've taken off the whole front clip. I think it would be time well spent.

OK, I am going to pull the engine/transmission.

Couple of questions:

  • Does the big electrical connector on the firewall come apart from the fuse box inside or do I have to take the harness off the engine?
  • Take the lines off the hydro-boost unit or take the PS pump off the engine?
  • Where is a good location to hoist the engine to have it relatively balanced with the transmission?
  • What is a good material or OEM part to insulate the firewall on the engine side? Same for the inside firewall.
 
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Gunfreak25

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The big fuse box has a small 10mm I think captured screw you unscrew from the inside. The fuse block then pulls away from the exterior.

I would disconnect the lines at the hydro booster.

The M923 series trucks use a reflective heat shielding material so the stuff is available. I dont know if Dynamat is for exterior use. Anything applied should probably be fastened down and not just applied with the adhesive backing.

Cant advise on lift points exactly. I've pulled them using the humvee lifting loops that secure to the rear and front of the cylinder heads via 2 bolts per hook. There was quite a bit of droop from the transfer case weight but manageable. One of those load levelers from China freight would help even things out.

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Gunfreak25

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There is also a firewall padding available for these trucks on the interior. Google k5 blazer firewall pad. It's around 80 dollars. Just slit the holes in the padding to fit around misc wires and speedo cable. No need to remove everything under there.


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alpine44

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The big fuse box has a small 10mm I think captured screw you unscrew from the inside. The fuse block then pulls away from the exterior.

I would disconnect the lines at the hydro booster.

The M923 series trucks use a reflective heat shielding material so the stuff is available. I dont know if Dynamat is for exterior use. Anything applied should probably be fastened down and not just applied with the adhesive backing.

Cant advise on lift points exactly. I've pulled them using the humvee lifting loops that secure to the rear and front of the cylinder heads via 2 bolts per hook. There was quite a bit of droop from the transfer case weight but manageable. One of those load levelers from China freight would help even things out.
There is also a firewall padding available for these trucks on the interior. Google k5 blazer firewall pad. It's around 80 dollars. Just slit the holes in the padding to fit around misc wires and speedo cable. No need to remove everything under there.
Thanks for the info.

Did you leave the transfer case connected to the transmission? I was planning to take it off to reduce weight and to avoid getting hung up somewhere with the extra width.
 

nyoffroad

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Civvie 6.2 trucks came with a rubber coated insulateing pad that mounted to the firewall before the heater box and master cyl was attached, if you can find one it's well worth the godl Eagles and left XXX you'll have to give for it.
Front clip means just that, the WHOLE front including the radiater support. I'd remove the clip and then while unbolting the engine I'd remover the PS pump and lay it over on the frame, one less thing to refill and work the air out of.
An engine balancer will be more than worth it even if you only use it once.
This will also be a good time to replace oil cooling lines, rad. hoses, and heater hoses and belts while your in there toss in a block heater too.
I love spending other peoples money!
 

alpine44

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Civvie 6.2 trucks came with a rubber coated insulateing pad that mounted to the firewall before the heater box and master cyl was attached, if you can find one it's well worth the godl Eagles and left XXX you'll have to give for it.
Front clip means just that, the WHOLE front including the radiater support. I'd remove the clip and then while unbolting the engine I'd remover the PS pump and lay it over on the frame, one less thing to refill and work the air out of.
An engine balancer will be more than worth it even if you only use it once.
This will also be a good time to replace oil cooling lines, rad. hoses, and heater hoses and belts while your in there toss in a block heater too.
I love spending other peoples money!
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look for the
interior padding. Pulling the engine and insulating the firewall is an add-on project to the main task of installing A/C .The interior firewall is bare and easy to get to at the moment.

Harmonic balancer is already ordered and hoses/belts will be replaced. I added dual block heaters when I lived in Montana.
 
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richingalveston

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if the engine is stock, there are two lift rings on the engine. one on the rear of the motor passenger side and the other on the drivers side front of the motor. If you have a spreader bar to hook to these points and the engine hoist hooking to the middle of the spreader bar then the engine will not try to twist as it comes out. just make sure where you hook to in the center of the bar cannot slide back and forth.
you want the back of the engine to tilt down, which it should with the tranny attached.
It is a heavy motor especially with tranny make sure your hoist can handle the weight without tipping.

I would pull the motor with all of the accessories on it, just disconnect all lines. the wiring harness comes with it if you unplug the fuse box, the back (engine side) is just a plug, unscrew the middle screw and it will unplug. this is a good time to clean the plug up when it comes out. I believe there are a couple of wires that go to the rear of the vehicle that have to be removed from under the truck. I think the rear wiring harness has a plug close to the rear axle. may want to chase down these wires first to remove.

disconnect exhaust at the manifolds. may need some new exhaust gaskets when putting it back together.

The big plug to the back of the fuse box is actually 3 plugs held by a plastic bracket, once unplugged you can take the individual plugs out of the bracket to separate the wiring harness.

I would plan to have some paint ready for the firewall, once you clean it good, put a fresh coat of paint on it because whatever insulation you use will hold moisture in it between the insulation and metal and any open or poorly coated metal will rust faster.

I have pulled my motor and tranny many times from my 1009, with front clip off it is easy to do. just drain everything well and disconnect all fluid lines. pull it all at one time. if you have a good lift, you can pull the transfer case with the motor and tranny.
 

Sharecropper

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I'm planning on removing the front clip in order to easily install the new P400 / 700R4 in my M1028. I'll install the NP208 after the engine & transmission have been bolted in.

You might as well go ahead and replace the 2 rubber bushings under the core support while you have it out. These can be seen in Figure 160, #7 in the 34P TM.

Did you decide how you are going to mount the AC compressor? I purchased the bracket kit from CPI and just now getting around to installing it. I'll be posting photos in my rebuild thread. I have already discovered a couple of things which need to be done to the kit to make it work.

I have also pondered how to insulate the firewall and floor over the transmission. My current thinking is to thoroughly clean and de-grease the surfaces and apply 3M spray undercoating. But if you can figure out a way to effectively and permanently add insulation to those areas, I'll buy in. Because those areas are pretty much inaccessible with the engine and transmission in place, whatever is applied needs to be a permanent application. 2-3 coats of spray undercoating, applied one after the other to build a coating thickness of 1/4" or so, would add a measure of sound and thermal protection, which might be acceptable for my needs. Please keep us informed of what you decide in this regard.

Hope this helps.
 

nyoffroad

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Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look for the
interior padding. Pulling the engine and insulating the firewall is an add-on project to the main task of installing A/C .The interior firewall is bare and easy to get to at the moment.

Harmonic balancer is already ordered and hoses/belts will be replaced. I added dual block heaters when I lived in Montana.
You misunderstood or I did explain correctly, the civvie insulating blanket mounted to the front of the firewall UNDER the hood! It extended all the way from side to and the fenders need to be removed to remove/install the blanket along with heater box/master cyl and electrical stuff. Lots of work and very hard to find but well worth the time and effort to install, you can actually drive at highway speeds and talk not shout! I've only seen one or two for sale over the years and I just sold a truck with one. A civvie hood blanket will help cut engine noise too.
 

nyoffroad

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I have also pondered how to insulate the firewall and floor over the transmission. My current thinking is to thoroughly clean and de-grease the surfaces and apply 3M spray undercoating. But if you can figure out a way to effectively and permanently add insulation to those areas, I'll buy in. Because those areas are pretty much inaccessible with the engine and transmission in place, whatever is applied needs to be a permanent application. 2-3 coats of spray undercoating, applied one after the other to build a coating thickness of 1/4" or so, would add a measure of sound and thermal protection, which might be acceptable for my needs. Please keep us informed of what you decide in this regard.

Hope this helps.
Don't use undercoating, even 3M. I'd use a good two part bed liner sprayed on after degreasing and scuffing it. Much more durable than undercoat and it's chemically activated so you don't have to worry about heat softening it up. It costs more but with all your doing and the money you've spent this is peanuts!
Make sure you use a TWO PART system that you mix the resin and hardener, do NOT waste your time and money on one part rattle can junk! As a bonus you can also spray the inside of the cab and up the firewall and side panels and under the seat, not only will it help insulate it makes wash outs a breeze! Just open the doors and hose it out.
 

ehuppert

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On my 1008 I used 3m sound deadener in cab and jute padding under carpet. I have used dynamat products, but couldn't justify the expense on a work truck. Still assembling, so can't give results! On my camaro i used dynamat extreme and dynamat liner on interior. Then used a heat shield pad vicinity of headers, exhaust etc. This has been on over a year, once stuck on it doesn't come off (peel off stuff). Flexible enough to bend, but fairly stiff. Think i used DEI floor and tunnel shield? Think this would be more effective for heat than bedliner, etc... Expensive, but you get what you pay for!
 

nyoffroad

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I was just on the LMC web site and saw a interior insulating kit for the floor all the way front to back, of course that means carpet or some kind of floor mats
 

Jozseph

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FWIW..........

Consider painting the fire wall with "LizasdSkin" insulation and sound control see;

http://lizardskin.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/lizardskin-application-instructions.pdf

If you are going to the time to remove the engine and transmission I would use the "LizasdSkin" and then put insulation on top.

Regards

Joseh
 

Sharecropper

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FWIW..........
Consider painting the fire wall with "LizasdSkin" insulation and sound control see;
http://lizardskin.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/lizardskin-application-instructions.pdf
If you are going to the time to remove the engine and transmission I would use the "LizasdSkin" and then put insulation on top.
Regards

Joseh
I considered Lizard Skin, however after reading about the product on their website, I can't see how the recommended thickness could add much insulation or sound control at all. They recommend the first coat of sound control (to be sprayed with their spray gun which you must also purchase) to be applied at 20 mills wet thickness. 1 mil is equal to one-thousandth of an inch, or .001. So 20 mils is .020 of an inch. Heck that's less than 1/32" thick. Then the next coat of insulation is to be sprayed on top of the first at an equal wet thickness of 20 mills, which is also less than 1/32" thick. After curing, the thickness of both coats will end up at approximately 1/16". This is no magic product, and in my opinion there's just no way a 1/16" coating of anything is going to provide much insulation at all. And it is expensive. And you must purchase their spray gun. And the stuff must be thoroughly mixed in its container with a special mixer (also purchased from them). And you must tape-off the surrounding areas before spraying. And if you discover later that you missed a spot, well, you know the drill. I believe I will pass on Lizard Skin, thank you.

I'm looking for a spray product that is readily available and easy to apply. And easy to touch up and/or add to later. From off the shelf, readily available. With the ability to build thickness.

So what would that product be?

SORRY ALPINE FOR HIJACKING YOUR THREAD! I'll shut up now.
 
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richingalveston

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have you looked at the ceramic beads that you add to the paint. you can use any paint but these ceramic beads are probably the best for a paint on application.

for the interior of my 1009 I used 3 of the lmc products. The asphalt based kit. I put 2 layers of it in, (3 in some areas) then the carpet pad which is approx. 1/2 thick and then the rubber liner on top of that. My truck is pretty quiet. I also used the interior fire wall blanket on the fire wall.
 

ehuppert

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Guess I'll jump back in..... I did extensive research when i re-did the interior in the Camaro. I had also researched sound deadening materials prior for customers cars at the shop (Vintage, British, etc).

The more home work i did i finally figured out that every product was usually compared to the dynamat extreme. Seems like they're the "bench mark". Some of the asphalt cheapies (lowes, HD, and others) were reported to give off some fumes. Some of the other products were a little cheaper, but had mixed reviews. This was i job i was going to do once, and I've never spared any expense on this vehicle anyway. Put down dynamat extreme, then the dyna liner over the top. Also did rear package tray and rear seat back panel. Put as much as i could in the door skins, and some of the door panel underneath the door card. As stated before, used DEI heat insulation underneath the car above headers and exhaust. Once that products is firmly pressed in place it's NOT coming off very easily! And, it will bring paint with it. It was a big PITA.... With that said, noise levels in the car are much less. Car exhaust was loud, road noise, etc, etc. Gets rid of a lot of resonance also. Doors sound solid now when they close, not tinny.... Also did a good job heat wise... Kind of ironic, twenty years ago i was stripping wight out as it was a dedicated drag car!

My 08 got the 3m sound deadening pads. Around $80 with shipping for a box of 10 sheets i think. Probably as thick as the dynamat extreme, but apx half the price. I've used this in lower end restorations and it does make a difference. Once again, worth doing.... I normally only drive this apx 1500 miles a year, so didn't go crazy like the Camaro...

Not a big fan of material other than paint underneath vehicle. Have seen undercoating chip, flake, etc and once moisture gets behind it holds it and accelerates the decomposition! And, unless you get rid of ALL the rust and properly prep prior to paint or coatings it kind of becomes a waste of money!

My cab (thanks Rick!) was media blasted and epoxy primered. Debated using Rustoleum, but ended up using Eastwood chassis black over the primer. Same program for the frame. Been in the rebuild process for over a year, haven't driven it, so can't tell how it will hold up...

**** rabbit holes.....
 
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