remote start mep-802a's sold on G/L a week or so ago....

zarathustra

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I wasn't the high bidder on any of these, but somebody was....

So..... If someone bought an 802a with the remote starting feature it would be interesting to see how they were configured for the remote start.

I know there was a cable involved, but beyond that I can only guess how that worked.

thanks
 

jamawieb

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Where did you see these units? I didn't know the military had auto starts? The only company I knew that made one, was Inova High Tech.
 

zarathustra

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These units were in Groveport or Lockbourne Ohio (near Columbus).

On the front panel when the main switch was in the OFF position, there was a label over OFF that said REMOTE. There was a warning label on one of them reading something like "unit may start without warning". There was also a reference to a cable connection that was associated with these. As I recall they were all 802a units. There were around 6 - 7 of them in a larger batch of 802a's being sold.

I wanted one of them just to see the REMOTE function...

So, if anyone on this site bought one, 'fess up now, and show us how that REMOTE function was implemented..

z
 

zarathustra

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I know the manual is silent on this. However that's why I'm asking. Since I have actually seen the labels and warning stickers in the G/L pictures on the auction(s), there is no doubt that the military had remote start on SOME of these generators -- all the details on this that I know about it is what I posted.

If one looks at past G/L auctions in either Lockbourne or Groverport Ohio for August of this year, SOME of the 802a's they sold had the remote start labels.

So, still looking
 

tim292stro

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Most large standby systems have a "request power" relay contact (closing the circuit actuates the relay that tells the controller power is needed from the load). The purpose of the auto start is to set the run-stop control to "run" and attempt starting until power is observed on the output. You should be able to modify (very lightly) ANY electric start generator with an electric fuel cutoff solenoid with an auto-start system.

What's basically entailed is that your OFF-RUN-START switch can be replaced with an AUTO-OFF-RUN-START switch, AUTO setting powers the auto-start controller, which watches the request power contact. When the request power contact is closed, the auto start controller energizes a relay that powers the original RUN circuitry, and then energizes a relay that powers the START circuitry until it observes power at the output at nearly the right frequency (50/60Hz) - then de-energizes the START relay. On better controllers, it can try to start a few times then give up to save the starter motor and your batteries, and the low oil, high water temperature, and low fuel alarm circuits will cause a shutdown automatically (by de-energizing the RUN relay).

When the request power contacts open, the RUN relay is de-energized and the generator stops running, on turbo-equipped generators, they can be set to run a no-load cool-down cycle.

For fixed installation generators they also feature a weekly exercise mode, where the generator run under no load (or under a load bank) to get up to temperature and stir the fuel, then shuts down.


The actual request for power would come from a load transfer switch, that detects the loss of GRID power service tripping the relay that requests power. When the load transfer switch sees power is available on the GENERATOR input, it closes an interlocked switch to power the loads from the generator. When the GRID comes back up, two things could happen: 1) on cheap/dumb transfer-switches+auto-starts, the interlocked switch for the GENERATOR source will OPEN, then the interlocked switch for the GRID will close powering the loads from the grid; 2) on more expensive/intelligent transfer-switches+auto-starts, the generator will match its frequency to the grid, then the GRID switch will close so the load is powered from BOTH the GRID and GENERATOR, then the GENERATOR switch will open (no load drop between steps).

For things like lightbulbs, or other items on a UPS system, the cheap/dumb kind of transfer switch and auto-start is fine. For industrial plants with high horsepower motors or very high electrical loads (think hospital), transferring the load all at once from 100% to 0% to 100% would probably blow fuses/breakers and melt critical power transmission components... here the cost of a frequency matching backup power system is easily justified.

Pretty simple stuff really. :beer:
 
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zarathustra

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interceptor

I KNEW that somebody on this site had one.... So, pictures would be great, and I'd also be interested in how they did this. Somewhere you'll find a cable plug. I'm curious as to how they implemented REMOTE. It'd have to encompass starting, flashing, and turning the AC interruptor on. It probably had REMOTE stiop as well.

It would be interesting to see if they had a cycle adjust or a voltage adjust that was remote too, but my guess it was limited to the functions above.


z
 

Interceptor

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The only obvious difference I can see inside the control panel is the diode on the back of the start switch. It's wired across terminals 5&7, on my other four sets the diode is across 1&7. I didn't find any extra plugs or harnesses. I wonder if they use the diagnostic port for remote control. This one had the cap for the diagnostic port stashed in the document box, but then so did one other that doesn't have the remote option. Will do more investigation when I have time.

2015-08-29 09.01.51.jpg
2015-08-29 08.58.33.jpg
 

Ratch

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Remote start provision is usually designed into standby generators for control by a permanent installation switch. TQG's are intended to be the primary source of power, and temporary, different than a standby. I'd be surprised to see any *made* for remote start.

I usually see military grid failover power systems as commercial packages. I can see some reasons to modify a tactical field generator, though.

I'm curious how they implemented it, also. A controller wired to a few terminals is all that's needed, not much else. Assuming frequency is set and stable, and would not need adjustment.
I wouldn't get too excited though, it's probably not something easier to install than a $100 programmable controller from eBay.
 
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zarathustra

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At least that's the decal label that I had seen. At least one of them had a warning label as well about the generator starting without warning. It would have to have wiring to enable the AC interrupt. Doing it through the diagnostic plug on the front could work... as I recall Flash, AC interrupt, are both signals available at the diagnostic plug. Perhaps a couple of other connections were added.
But there also had to be a way to shut down the AC interrupt as well as the generator remotely. If they couldn't shut it down remotely they'd absolutely have to have a way to shut down the AC interrupt..
 

Ratch

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If it can be done through the diag port, that would be ideal...then you can yank one Gen and swap in another in no time. That's probably what they did.
 

kloppk

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Pins U, P & R on the diagnostic port could be wired up to provide for Remote Start.
U to P & R for Start
U to R for Run

At the moment I don't see a means to close the contactor thru the diag port...
 
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zarathustra

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Since only a small percentage of the diagnostic plug pins are connected to anything, simply adding a wire loop from an unused pin to the AC interrupt switch and then connecting that pin to a push button switch at the remote site would do the trick.

Somehow there would have to be a couple of "loops" from the generator to the remote site. If those "loops" went through switches on the control console, the AC and the generator itself could be shut off.

Note that a generator tech that I know that was in Afghanistan told me that the batteries tended to go flat if the generators weren't used. He told me that he always pulled the 7.5 amp circuit breaker to the open position to keep this from happening.
 

AfghanVeteran2010

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Late post but im looking into this capability, from what I have seen the remote is threw the diagnostic port. Seen this when i was deployed, the unit was a mep-802a it was back-up for a weather station. I do not have any pictures, couldn't take any if i wanted to. Im sure its a normal unit, just some kind of special controller hooked threw the diag port. Here is a pin out for diag port i found

 

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