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So what's supposed to happen when I turn the key on?

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hobie237

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What, exactly, gets energized, in each position?

I ask because my starter is not getting power when I turn the key to the "START" position. I was able to start the truck using a safety pin to jam into the purplish wire to the solenoid and manually applying 12v to the safety pin. Obviously this is not a long-term solution, and obviously my problem lies between the key and this wire. My current thinking is that I'll just put a momentary on switch here. But, do I have to worry about something else going south for the "RUN" position? Any idea what part went bad?
 
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hobie237

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RE: So what

Ok, so can somebody at least tell me which wire(s) are "hot" under the dash so that I can rig my own switch for the starter? I know I need to send power to the purplish wire via a momentary on switch, but I'd rather not run a new wire through the firewall if I can avoid it. Can somebody tell me where I can get power from?
 
mangus580

mangus580

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RE: So what

Ricky, do a search for the 'starter relay' in the CUCV section. You will find all your answers, as well as probably your real problem.
 
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hobie237

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RE: So what

Thanks for the information. The AC40 relay crossed to something at Pep Boys (closest auto parts store) and it worked. Truck now cranks fine. I'm still considering going to a manual switch to eliminate the relay, I can't imagine why anyone would want a relay between the ignition switch and the solenoid, unless to introduce more failure points.
 
mangus580

mangus580

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RE: So what

The relay is there because the starter needs 24v to activate it. Your ignition switch sends 12v. so the relay switches 24v, using the 12v signal.

If you are worried about failure... replace it with a solenoid, much like the glow plug relay on the firewall. It will handle the current alot better.

You wont find many switches that will handle what you are asking.
 
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hobie237

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RE: So what

I thought the solenoid just got 12v though? And that's what switches on the 24v to the starter? I could be confused (often am), but it would seem that this is simply 12v in from the key, 12v out to the solenoid.
 
mangus580

mangus580

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RE: So what

No, this relay creates the 24v for the solenoid. The complete starter (motor and solenoid) are 24v. I think its because it would have had to be a bastard starter to have the solenoid 12v, and motor 24.

Look at the schematics in the TM's, it will make total sense.
 
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hobie237

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RE: So what

Ah. Well, that would explain why it was cranking slower than normal when I was jumping 12v to the purple wire, it wanted 24v- I thought that it was just due to the safety pin being a poor conductor and/or not having great contact. I still think it's a silly arrangement though ;) and I may bypass it with a pushbutton starter just so it doesn't leave me stranded (again). This is the second time in six months that a random chance relay failure has left one of my vehicles quite a distance from home, and I'm not looking to make it happen again if it's at all avoidable.

Thanks for the assistance.
 
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hobie237

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Nah, I actually didn't get burned at all. Jammed the safety pin into the wire, took a wire with two alligator clips on the ends, clipped one end to a hot 12v stud under the hood, turned the key on, and then touched the other end of the wire to the safety pin. I was ready for a decent shock, but it never came. I guess I just wasn't grounded well enough. ;)
 
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hobie237

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Oh. In that case, the engine was already pretty hot (I'd been off road for a good hour and a half, and it'd been running for at least an hour straight before that) so it didn't need much cranking to get it to fire, just a couple of revolutions and vroooom.

Now I just have to figure out the hard starting thing... sigh.

By the way, I want your deuce.
 
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hobie237

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Cranks and cranks, with white smoke (unburned fuel) at first startup. Colder makes it more difficult. When the truck is warmed up, it starts right up. I replaced the glow plugs (some were swollen, some were still working) with Wellmans yesterday and I still have the problem. The glow plug relay is clicking as it should and the WAIT light is working as it should. I know that my fast idle solenoid is shot, but I can fake that by just holding down the pedal a bit. I believe that the issue is my cold advance solenoid, but I can't locate a replacement.

On an unrelated note, where did you get that Arctic kit and how much was it?
 
mangus580

mangus580

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I suspect you will find you are still having glow plug issues. Are you sure that when the relay clicks, you are getting voltage to the plugs?


It came from a guy on ebay, and he doesnt have any more. He had over a dozen at the time!
 
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hobie237

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I hear a "clunk" when it goes off, and I did at one point measure voltage going out. I'm considering the manual glow plug install just to eliminate that as a failure point, so that I don't think that they're working, I *know* that they're working. Then I'll go back to blaming the cold advance solenoid, which I haven't yet tested. Since I have the pushbutton starter switch, I guess I'll just use that for the glow plugs, all I have to do is run the light blue wire to one side of the switch and the other to ground, right?
 
mangus580

mangus580

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Right.

If you are hearing a clunk... then your controller is working, and the manual setup isnt going to do much for you. It will be somewhat useful in diagnosis though, and making sure you have voltage to each GP.

As for the cold advance... it wont really effect starting. Its primarily there to help the engine warm up faster.
 
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hobie237

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To test for voltage, should I just stick one lead on the connector and the other to the block or other suitable ground? Or is there some other way that I should be checking them?

My understanding was that the cold advance made it easier to start, ah well...

Now I have to dig out the multimeter... again. Ugh.
 
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hobie237

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Also, on the subject of the personnel heater, is it the same one as for the Deuce and whatnot or is it unique to the CUCVs and/or any other vehicles? I'm going to start hunting for one, can you share any pics of the installation, or even the final product? Thanks!
 
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