Splitting up the TM Modern Conflict Vehicles into vehicle specific threads

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TOBASH

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Finding technical manuals is sometimes a chore. TM numbers without descriptions, Finding TM's of LMTV when looking for HMMWV, etc...

I would like to suggest and even volunteer to split HMMWV from the other manuals AND instead of just listing the TM#, placing the name of the TM such as "Vehicle maintenance" or " Engine maintenance" etc... Even placing a picture of the TM coverpage in the thread to allow for quick identification prior to opening a slow to open .PDF file.

Best,

T
 

porkysplace

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Finding technical manuals is sometimes a chore. TM numbers without descriptions, Finding TM's of LMTV when looking for HMMWV, etc...

I would like to suggest and even volunteer to split HMMWV from the other manuals AND instead of just listing the TM#, placing the name of the TM such as "Vehicle maintenance" or " Engine maintenance" etc... Even placing a picture of the TM coverpage in the thread to allow for quick identification prior to opening a slow to open .PDF file.

Best,

T
Download them to your computer, then there is no wait and you have the TM's you want .
 

SCSG-G4

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TM numbers are not hard to figure out. TM a-bbbb-ccc-xx-(p) where 'a' is the major proponent (aircraft, chemical, artillery, electronics, ordnance, etc.). 'bbbb' is the Federal Supply Code (2320 is wheeled vehicles, 2330 is trailers, etc). 'ccc' is a specific item (IE, 283 is Truck, tractor, M915). 'xx' is the level that is being addressed (10 = operator, 20 = first level maintenance, 30 = second level maintenance, 50 = factory maintenance, 35 = second level through factory). How hard is that?
 

porkysplace

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TM numbers are not hard to figure out. TM a-bbbb-ccc-xx-(p) where 'a' is the major proponent (aircraft, chemical, artillery, electronics, ordnance, etc.). 'bbbb' is the Federal Supply Code (2320 is wheeled vehicles, 2330 is trailers, etc). 'ccc' is a specific item (IE, 283 is Truck, tractor, M915). 'xx' is the level that is being addressed (10 = operator, 20 = first level maintenance, 30 = second level maintenance, 50 = factory maintenance, 35 = second level through factory). How hard is that?
There is even a TM on how to use the TM's.
[h=1]How to use/read Technical Manuals[/h]
 

M813rc

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What Tobash is suggesting is actually a good idea. He is not saying he doesn't know how to use the manuals, he is saying it can be a chore to pick the one you want from a list without an easy to spot clue.

By that, I mean it is easier (for me anyway, and likely some others) to find "M809" than it is to read "TM 9-2320-260-10" and pick 260 out of it, having memorized the codes for each vehicle.
Which is why, when I save manual PDFs in my own computer, I put whatever they are for in front of the TM #.

Cheers
 

dmetalmiki

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Could not agree more, I personally find 'books' like this are laid out in the most un-user friendly method as is possible.
But then so are most "Help"? manuals.
 

Guyfang

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Well, it sure helps if you were in the milatary, and used said books. And really learned what you are looking at. I was in the Army 7 years, before an old CW3 took me by the hand ant showed me how to use the books, and not just look at them.

The "help TM" that my Good friend KREDD posted, is a good start to learning how to use the TM's. But there is much more. It's just most folks do not want to take the time to get smart. I have to admit, the newest TM' I have read, are not user friendly. But even those, will give up good info, if you take the time to read them.
 

porkysplace

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Aaaargh!! It's not about using the TMs! It's about finding a specific TM from a list on SS!!!

Cheers
The thing with the TM's is when a new one is added it goes to the top of the list (just like new threads in all the forums) so since there is no posting in the TM section that's how they stay. It isn't just a problem in one section it is in all sections . The best solution is to download them and organize how ever you , it also uses a lot of bandwidth on the server when using them without downloading. Plus with them downloaded you have them if the site goes down for some reason as it does from time to time.
 

Guyfang

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Aaaargh!! It's not about using the TMs! It's about finding a specific TM from a list on SS!!!

Cheers
Rory, You are a hard man. I was only commenting on DMETALMIKI's posting.

But you are right. Its about a better way to find the right manual. Its been a problem for me from the start. Not finding them, but the way we file them. I have posted more then a few TM to the SS forum. And I have never felt like we have it RIGHT. There should be a better way. Porky is right. Its a problem across the board. What we have is better then nothing. But can we make it better?

1. Maybe we should have a "standard" way to log the name, model numbers and TM titles, when we submit the thread in the TM forum. Perhaps a "Plug in the answers) form. That way you cant get it wrong.

2. Perhaps a searchable list of all Trucks, gen sets and what ever, as a sticky in each sub forum. I made something like that for generators. I listed all the generators by size, (KW) Model, (MEP-***) TM number, Power unit and Power Plant Model number. Then listed each and every TM applicable to that piece of equipment. And if I had to do it again, would include the NSN for the gen set. But the problem is, (I think) that you can't change a sticky after its posted. So any new TM, or change/update, MWO, Warning or additional info can not be added to the list. When I started up loading TM's, I asked a moderator if we could get rid of the "Old" TM's listed in the TM forum. I had all the newest, most improved TM's available and thought it might make it easier and simpler to find Gen set TM's without the old manuals also being in the Forum. I was told, (and agree 100% now) some folks liked to also have the old books available. It does make for more things to look at, but having the old books is also a good idea. Trucks would be no different, just take up even more space.

3. One of the biggest problems with trucks is that a lot of times, one thread, has one TM. Then something else is submitted, or 2-3 things. Then another one TM in one thread. Its spread out all over 40 acres. I tried hard to include all the TM's in one thread. Didn't get it right, Still makes me mad. Or something new comes out, and you cant add it to the thread. Once submitted, its locked up.

4. TOBASH mentioned putting the TM picture on the thread to help find the right TM. Great idea. And its supposed to, (I think) work that way. Some of my TM's come up with the cover, some don't. Why? I don't know. If I could fix that alone, it would help. A jet black outline is not telling anyone what TM is behind door number 3. You have to guess. The info is there, but some people don't see the TM cover, and think nothing is there.

5. Lots of TM's in the forum are linked to someplace else. Links die. Not good. Some of the linked TM's are so old they could belong in a museum. Out of date, missing changes. No good.

I would volunteer to help revamp the TM forum in a heartbeat. Its always been a pet thing I liked to do, because I always knew that if I did it, it got done right. What we need is a good idea on how to do it right, and then do it. But splitting HMMWV's from the other vehicles only fixes HMMWV's. Lets fix it all.
 

gringeltaube

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...............I would volunteer to help revamp the TM forum in a heartbeat. Its always been a pet thing I liked to do, because I always knew that if I did it, it got done right. What we need is a good idea on how to do it right, and then do it. But splitting HMMWV's from the other vehicles only fixes HMMWV's. Lets fix it all.
Yes sir, this will be done soon, hopefully in the coming weeks; free-time allowing... and I'd appreciate your- and everyone's suggestions and help, of course!

This is the plan: For now we will not create any new sub-forums. All it needs (in each of the forums) is just one thread per vehicle type/ M-Series, titled accordingly and updated as new manuals are found and added (in the TM-Upload section).

First post of said thread would be a list of all the TMs, including the -HRs, followed by LOs. 2nd post in that same thread for the MWOs; 3rd one for everything else, related to that family of vehicles.

Every book; brochure; etc. linked to be downloaded; all TM numbers put- and kept in nice, numerical and/or alphabetical order, with its date-published and a short description of its task, and/or what is covered. Also, by what TM it was superseded, in case of the older books. All easy to find by just scrolling down the page...

Threads titles in each forum will all start with "TMs for the MXXX-Series, XXXXX (the MV acronym); eventually explained in words, if not so popular.
All sorted smallest to largest numbers, descending.

It is clear to me that not every reader can- or want to spend time to- learn the military TM nomenclature; what exactly all the different numbers mean. So we want to make this as user-friendly as possible, even for our newbies!


Let's get started!

G.
 

doghead

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It is clear to me that not every reader can- or want to spend time to- learn the military TM nomenclature; what exactly all the different numbers mean. So we want to make this as user-friendly as possible, even for our newbies!

A suggestion,

At least include the correct nomenclature, as well as whatever user friendly names are used.

Please don't change the Tms TO "BIG GREEN TRUCK WITH 6 LUG NUTS"...
Let's not "dumb down" the site, I think we all see what that's doing for the rest of the world.

Educate, not sublimate.:doghead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Machine_(1960_film)
 
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gringeltaube

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Maybe I wasn't clear enough: YES, of course; each line starts with the correct military TM number, then VOL X of X, then Part X of X (if applicable), then the date published, then the description (MAINTENANCE or PARTS, etc.), then- if it was superseded- by which TM.


I'm all for educating!!:idea:
 

Guyfang

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I would suggest the you come up with a format, and then a few folks look at it. Make suggestions, and try it out. If several folks find it easy to work, then run with it. Also, before the first message with the "Master List" is posted. Several folks who are truck and TM smart look at it. It never hurts to have more then one pair of eyes look at it.

Also, should the TM changes be included? I know that I have one TM, that the date published is 1972, and it has 17 changes to it.
 
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M813rc

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Rory, You are a hard man.
Not really! :) I need to remember to put something like a smile next to comments like mine to affirm that I am saying it with humour. I felt we were straying from, or missing, the point of the thread at that moment. Certainly, no smacking or insult was intended, and hopefully none taken. :beer:


I absolutely agree with "smarten up" rather than "dumbing down", which is all too prevalent these days. I think anyone serious about their vehicles should at least know what -10, -20 -34P, etc. mean.
I also think that those of us with experience can gently prod newbies in the right direction to help them get up to speed. Don't do it for them, but help guide them to enlightenment, so to speak.

My earlier point, which in looking back was not clearly stated, was that while looking at a whole list of TMs, seeking one for my M813, it is easier to quickly spot
M809 TM 9-2320-260-10 than it is to pick out 260 (which I may not have yet realized means M809) from
TM 9-2320-260-10


Cheers
 
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gringeltaube

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Listings won't be set in stone; everything can be changed/updated, anytime.

All this is already complex enough, so let's keep it as simple and compact as possible. Some TMs will even be listed twice - typically for generator-trailers/trailer-mounted generators.
Each TM will appear in a paragraph of two lines, at most. Changes for each TM and other such details can be seen after downloading/opening it.


For now I am transferring all data into my own Excel spreadsheets, to have a better overview and then easier management.
 
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