Stopped by the NCSHP

[m-35tom]

in regards to the fuel decal. it is required in ALL states as far as i can find. exempt are pickup trucks with attached campers. also rv's and the like. see: http://www.dor.state.nc.us/publications/IFTAComplianceOct2001.pdf
this seems to be the same wording in all states as far as i see. is a deuce exempt? it would be if it had a camper attached!

tom

 

[m-35tom]

this is not a state thing, it is federal. all deuces that still have 3 axles are included and you are required by law to get the IFTA decal. is it enforced? not really, but it applys to all states and all trucks reguardless of how you have it taged. (unless it is a camper)

tom

 

[Ruppster]

this is not a state thing, it is federal. all deuces that still have 3 axles are included and you are required by law to get the IFTA decal. is it enforced? not really, but it applys to all states and all trucks reguardless of how you have it taged. (unless it is a camper)

tom

First off an IFTA sticker is not a requirement. If you are driving out of state a lot then it might be the best way to go about it but you do not "have to" buy the actual IFTA sticker. If you are only going to be driving out of state a couple times a year then you can get temp permits on a case by case bases. The trick is some states (like NC) have their own state version of an IFTA sticker for those vehicles that are driven in state. This state sticker is to make sure heavy vehicles like a semi truck pay more for fuel taxes then someone driving a car.


As far as IFTA being a federal deal while it is a federal thing for the most part it is still a state by state issue. Each state has their own office that handles IFTA/fuel permit related issues. I've driven cross country a few times with antique semi trucks with tandem drive axles and I did not need IFTA in all states. Plus Oregon is not a member of IFTA. If you are not for hire and you are driving a truck for personal use they could care less. LA just says you need to buy fuel in their state if you are driving through (if you get stopped at a scale on the way out and don't have a receipt for fuel then they hit you with a fine). MS was the same way. NM also said I didn't need a permit as long as I was hauling my own personal goods. AZ first said I needed a permit but when I told them we were moving due to military orders they said I did not need the permit and that I would have to show a copy of the PCS orders if I was stopped. FL, AL, TX, NC, SC, GA, WA, and CA made me buy both temp registration (IRP) and fuel trip permits. And in several cases you have to get them before you cross the state line. Some states will fax them to you directly (permit fees varies by each state, some are cheap while others can be rather pricey) while other states make you go through a civilian company to buy them (these companies add a fee to the price of the permits and this fee varies by company). Flying J's have computer kiosks for things like this and you can get a fax number assigned to you that is like an email account. You have the permits faxed to the number and you can go in to any Flying J's and print out the permits as needed. Came in real handy for long trips. A few states will let you pick up the permits at the Port of Entry.

"Is it enforced? not really". Believe me, when it comes to tandem axle trucks used for private use it is enforced. There's no doubt about that as I have seen it done many times. But the MV community has been able to take advantage of one thing, the color of their trucks. When a scale official sees a 2 and a half ton or 5 ton 6x6 go by they don't think of it as commercial. As far as they know it's a military truck, not civilian, and as such it is out of their control. But if you get stopped by a Commercial LEO and he or she sees that you are not military you better have all your paperwork in order or you could be in for a ton of fines.

While I have not seen the IFTA book for every state I have seen them from several states. Each one that I saw had a master list of contact info for each state office that handled IFTA permits. When I first drove cross country I got the IFTA book from VA and I called the phone number for each state that I was going to be driving through and asked them about the need for permits. If they told me I did not need a permit I made sure that I wrote down the name of the person I talked to and the date and time of the call. This log came in handy in NM as they tried to force me to buy permits at the Port of Entry but when they called the person I talked to a few weeks prior they found out I didn't need them.

The Amercian Truck Historical Society (www.aths.org) has been fighting with the IFTA people for a change to the main rules that would exempt antique plated trucks. Some states have issued temp waiver letters but they were only for the dates when antique truck shows were going on. I talked with the MVPA years ago about the possiblility of the MVPA joining with ATHS on this issue but the attitude I got from the MVPA at the time was that they cared more for the members that had WWII Jeeps and Dodges and could care less about us nut-jobs that liked to play with 6x6's. So I told them they could keep their membership and I went over to the ATHS.

Ruppster

 

[Gunnar1071]

Thank you guys for bumping this thread. I have been trying to get "all my ducks in a row" before purchasing a Duece, and this thread has answered a lot of questions and raised a few more for me.

"Is it enforced? not really". Believe me, when it comes to tandem axle trucks used for private use it is enforced. There's no doubt about that as I have seen it done many times. But the MV community has been able to take advantage of one thing, the color of their trucks. When a scale official sees a 2 and a half ton or 5 ton 6x6 go by they don't think of it as commercial. As far as they know it's a military truck, not civilian, and as such it is out of their control. But if you get stopped by a Commercial LEO and he or she sees that you are not military you better have all your paperwork in order or you could be in for a ton of fines.

Makes me wanna shave the goatee and wear fatigues when I finally do get the Duece.

 

[Ruppster]

Makes me wanna shave the goatee and wear fatigues when I finally do get the Duece.

Just noticed your location as SoCal. Sounds like you're already screwed no matter what you do.

Ruppster

 

[m-35tom]

thanks for the additional input. i have, in 15 years, never run into a problem. no matter what i do or where i drive. but the potential is there and we should be prepared if on trips especially.

tom

 

[shovelheadmike]

I live in NC and have an A3. When I registered it, which was some what of an ordeal since it does not have a 17 digit VIN, they gave me the option of a regular car/light truck tag. (I was required to sign a wavior that I couldn't read the fine print-didn't have the reading glasses). Now, I see that this is not legal and that I need to change it to a truck weighted tag of 24,000.lbs or so. Also, need to get the fuel sticker, just in case. (I will get the international one as I will go to both SC and VA, but will put "non commercial" as the company name on the form). I consider it to be an RV, but it appears that the SHP won't agree with me. I learned a long time ago that you only get the "justice" that you can afford, and to be vary careful in choosing your battles. This is one that I choose not to fight. It is simply too easy to comply and avoid an unnecessary problem. Also, once you become known to be a "trouble maker", they will be looking for you for special attention.

 

[shovelheadmike]

Oh, if you only drive within in the state of NC,.they have.a.sticker.just for you...

 

[kwiksilver]

...Which is why I just got the correct commercial tag for my duece.

 

[DieselBob]

this is not a state thing, it is federal. all deuces that still have 3 axles are included and you are required by law to get the IFTA decal. is it enforced? not really, but it applys to all states and all trucks reguardless of how you have it taged. (unless it is a camper)

tom

I know it boils down to semantics, but this is what I found reading through the Md regs.

From the “[FONT=ACaslon-Regular, serif]Compliance Manual. International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA). [/FONT][FONT=Trajan-Regular, serif]Comptroller of Maryland [/FONT]�� [FONT=Trajan-Regular, serif]MATT REGULATORY DIVISION, [/FONT][FONT=ACaslon-Regular, serif]Peter Franchot [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman, serif]• [/FONT][FONT=ACaslon-Regular, serif]Comptroller of Maryland”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
A. IFTA License Application Procedures.[/FONT]
Any motor carrier[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] based in Maryland and operating one or more [/FONT]qualified motor vehicles[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] in at least one (1) other member jurisdiction must file an IFTA license application in Maryland[/FONT]

Now Maryland defines “Motor carrier”

Carrier [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]means a person who operates or causes to be operated a [/FONT]qualified motor vehicle[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] on any highway in Maryland[/FONT]

Now we look for the definition of a “Qualified motor vehicle”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Qualified motor vehicle means a motor vehicle used, designed, or maintained for the transportation of persons or property and:[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has two (2) axles and a gross vehicle weight or registered gross vehicle weight exceeding 26,000 pounds or 11,797 kilograms; or[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has three (3) or more axles regardless of weight;[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]or[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is used in combination when the weight of such combination exceeds 26,000 pounds or 11,797 kilograms gross vehicle weight, or registered gross vehicle weight. Qualified motor vehicle does not include recreational vehicles and[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]vehicles owned and operated by the U.S. Government.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Now we look for the definition of a “Recreational vehicle” and we find the “out” for all of this[/FONT]

Recreational vehicles [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]mean vehicles such as motor homes, pickup trucks with attached campers, and buses when used exclusively for personal pleasure by an individual. [/FONT]To qualify as a recreational vehicle, the vehicle shall not be used in connection with any business endeavor.[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] A recreational vehicle rented for personal pleasure is not deemed used in a business endeavor by either the renter or the rentee.

They use the term "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]such as" instead of "limited to" so the second part of the description would seem to take president in the definition.
[/FONT]

 

[m16ty]

What Ruppster said is dead on about IFTA. IFTA will actually kick you out of their system if you don't log out of state miles for three consecutive quarters. I deal with IFTA on our commercial trucks we run and it's not something you want to have to deal with if you can help it.

 

[hwcurtice]

Well it happened today guys, I got stopped by the NCSHP.

I had just picked up 6,000 lbs of gravel for my house when the SHP stopped me for a weight check. I have my deuce registered as a antique vehicle, and was told by the trooper that a antique vehicle tag only covers 4,000 lbs GVWR. He put my truck on his portable scales and weighed me at 20,500 lbs. So, he was "nice" enough to give me a 500lb grace, and then wrote me a ticket for being 16,000 lbs overweight. I tried explaining that the truck was NOT commercial and that it was primarily used for show and historical significance. He replied that he was also being nice and not writing me a ticket for not having a fuel decal. He told me that in NC if your truck has three or more axles then I must buy a fuel decal. I once again explained that my truck was NOT commercial, but it didnt matter.

So, after receiving a $630.00 ticket and an hour and a half later I was allowed to leave.....

Anybody want to buy a good 1971 non turbo deuce?!?!?!?!??

Didn't read the entire thread.

Do you still have the Deuce? How much? Will you transport it to the West Coast?

Yeah, just kidding...

Sucks when Barney is bored and rubs it in at the same time (Yes, I did read that).

 

[GPappy]

In Michigan the GVWR of the vehicle determines the need for a CDL class A. Here it is 26001 LBS combined GVWR(Truck and trailer). Below that you just need a Chauffers. And you're right, it is a lot of work for occassional use, but since when has our government cared about anything other than $$$$$$$$$$.

When you say that below 26001 LBS you need a Chauffers license, I assume that is if it is used comercially? Never heard of having to have a Chauffers License for personal vehicles.

When I titled my Deuce (Which will be bobbed with a M105 bed) they didn't know what to put down for body style and when I described it (or what it would be), they decided Pick Up. Of course they also refused to call it a Kaiser Jeep and just put down Jeep. They were confused by the M185A3 that was on the SF-97 for type. Guess I better start researching what I will need for plates.

 

[mobileauto2000]

Yes Oregon is a member. This is from there website.

Oregon-based companies operating trucks and buses in other states and Canadian provinces participate in the International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA) and work with the Oregon Department of Transportation, Motor Carrier Transportation Division, to pay fuel taxes owed to the other jurisdictions. The companies pay an annual fee for an IFTA license and then submit quarterly reports showing mileage traveled and taxable gallons of fuel consumed (reports are also needed to document that there was no activity). Oregon collects the fuel taxes from the companies, allocates the taxes to the various jurisdictions, and audits the companies' reports for accuracy.

 

[Ruppster]

You left out the most important part. It was right after the section you posted and it said:

Oregon is not a fuel tax state. For trucks over 26,000 pounds, Oregon recovers highway-use costs through a weight-mile tax rather than a diesel fuel tax. But Oregon administers an IFTA program as a service to Oregon-based companies who operate in other states that do charge a fuel tax. The IFTA program is necessary because except by purchasing single-trip permits, these companies have no other way to discharge their fuel tax liability. They cannot individually file quarterly fuel tax reports and make payments to states and provinces.

When I stated that Oregon was not part of IFTA in a previous posting that was what I was told by an agent for the state when I called them about permits. When I asked about whether I needed IFTA permits or not they told me they weren't a member state of IFTA and since I was not for hire I didn't need anything at all anyhow. While they do run an IFTA program for companies that drive out of state from Oregon that's just to help the companies file with IFTA, it does not mean they are a member.


Here's where the quote above came from:
http://licenseinfo.oregon.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=license_seng&link_item_id=14052


Ruppster

 

[mobileauto2000]

Kind like splittin' hairs. Yes they tax by the mile instead of by fuel tax. But to administers a program and disperse tax money they have to be a member even if it is on a limited bases.

 

[Ruppster]

They are the ones saying they are not a member, not me. I'm just repeating what they said to me. If you want to dispute it then talk to them as I could care less either way.


Ruppster

 

[mobileauto2000]

Like i said splitting hairs

 

[Ruppster]

Okay, if you say so.

 

[Bob USNR]

After verifying that the NCHP was wrong I would definitely go to court. If for no other reason than to let the judge correct him. Carry a printout of the law with you and as many examples as you can find. The law library of NC is most likely available on line for most of the docs you will need.

I once had a virginia officer try to tell me antique tags were "parades only" (The maintenance driving allowance covers any driving any time anywhere) and "must be safety inspected".
Safety inspection has never been required by Va. for antiques.
While talking to that cop, on the roadside, I did, quite politely, defer to the officer's opinions even though I knew beyond any doubt I was right.
Generally it is easier to agree with them so they won't inconvenience us with an invalid ticket.
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