Thanks to Guyfang, Chris Miggins, and Robo McDuff

Tracer

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DSCF2355.jpg Many Thanks to Guyfang, Chris Miggins, and Robo McDuff for their unselfish time spent digging up TMs for a 1977 MAN 4X4 5 Ton truck. The TMs are of course printed in German, and search as we might, we were unable to find any in English. After some head scratching, we did find a company that specializes in translating TMs, Legal Documents, owners manuals and such so that's a start. Now this truck is one of a few that were purchased by the US Military from MAN in the 1970s, and from the door markings it was possibly used for the Patriot Missle Program. Also the truck is unique in that it has a front winch. There is one other truck like this known in the States, and it's on the East Coast. Chris has one of these 4X4 trucks that was used by the German Military in his collection, so his knowledge saved us a lot of time, and guyfang and Robo Mcduff took care of packaging and e-mailing all the TMs. This truck is owned by Alex Gordon at Idaho Motor Pool. Alex purchased the truck 3 years ago from GP at the Depot in Reno, NV.. As you can see the truck isn't in to bad a shape, but Alex didn't know where to start to get the truck running. So I gave him a call today and e-mailed the TMs and the translator info to him. When Alex is finished with this truck it should turn some heads. So, the ball is rolling, and this should make for a good winter project.
 
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M1078MAN

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Holy cow, small world. we had 18 of those parked in our compound, in 1990, Oberweiss ge, i think they were part of Mace-b, they were being processed to DRMO at Oberweiss.

found this

http://www.mace-b.com/38TMW/Bitburg/Oberweis.htm

The more I look at this truck, I dont think it was the same, I seem to remember 4 or 5 axles. they were for sure Mann, ...the memory fads with each passing day..google..the trucks we had were m1001, might be a good place for TM
 
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Tracer

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Holy cow, small world. we had 18 of those parked in our compound, in 1990, Oberweiss ge, i think they were part of Mace-b, they were being processed to DRMO at Oberweiss.

found this

http://www.mace-b.com/38TMW/Bitburg/Oberweis.htm

The more I look at this truck, I dont think it was the same, I seem to remember 4 or 5 axles. they were for sure Mann, ...the memory fads with each passing day..google..the trucks we had were m1001, might be a good place for TM
They made this same basic truck in 3 & 4 axles as well. Were going to check TMs for the 3 & 4 axle trucks, as a couple of the guys thought those trucks came with TMs in English, and some of the basic operations were the same for all 3 trucks.
 

Robo McDuff

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Holy cow, small world. we had 18 of those parked in our compound, in 1990, Oberweiss ge, i think they were part of Mace-b, they were being processed to DRMO at Oberweiss.

found this

http://www.mace-b.com/38TMW/Bitburg/Oberweis.htm1


The more I look at this truck, I dont think it was the same, I seem to remember 4 or 5 axles. they were for sure Mann, ...the memory fads with each passing day..google..the trucks we had were m1001, might be a good place for TM
Tracer, thanks for the remark, but I did not do that much (tried but did not work), whatever. If you need a quick translation of something, let me know.

1078MAN, thanks for the link. I don't think that this type of MAN was ever made in 5 axle, but the 4-axle was well-known on this side of the pond, same as the Tatra Kolos 8x8.

Interesting is that most European tractors today are 2-axle variations. Cargo trucks often 3-axle. Even during the Cold War, probably transport over the road was more important than through terrain. We needed to get stuff to the front quickly over hundreds of miles if the East Bloc started something.
 

Guyfang

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Few people think about it now, but during the cold war, most West German transport trucks were compatible to German Army transport trucks. In the early 70's, if you took notice, there were NATO slave receptacles and openings for a Air observer/Air Defense MG on top of the trucks. A truck driver told me that civ. transport firms got a tax break, if they agreed to purchase compatible trucks, and agree to "sign over" their trucks to the German Army in case of war. Its a thing of the past now.
 

Tracer

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Holy cow, small world. we had 18 of those parked in our compound, in 1990, Oberweiss ge, i think they were part of Mace-b, they were being processed to DRMO at Oberweiss.

found this

http://www.mace-b.com/38TMW/Bitburg/Oberweis.htm

The more I look at this truck, I dont think it was the same, I seem to remember 4 or 5 axles. they were for sure Mann, ...the memory fads with each passing day..google..the trucks we had were m1001, might be a good place for TM
Excellent idea. I'll start on it tomorrow. Today is a high priority day....The Wife's birthday.
 

M1078MAN

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Excellent idea. I'll start on it tomorrow. Today is a high priority day....The Wife's birthday.

I hear that. I know for a fact the m1001 had English tm, god i kick my self for not grabbing a set.. I remembered last night, trucks were headed to Turkey through the Foreign military sales.

I swore they were pre patriot
 
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Robo McDuff

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Few people think about it now, but during the cold war, most West German transport trucks were compatible to German Army transport trucks. In the early 70's, if you took notice, there were NATO slave receptacles and openings for a Air observer/Air Defense MG on top of the trucks. A truck driver told me that civ. transport firms got a tax break, if they agreed to purchase compatible trucks, and agree to "sign over" their trucks to the German Army in case of war. Its a thing of the past now.

Didn't know that, not sure the Dutch did the same, but I will check.
 

AAVP7

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Sorry to chime in so late, but as far as I know, those MAN M-1001, etc. trucks were mostly used for supporting Pershing-II missiles and GLCMs (Ground Launched Cruise Missiles) in the European theater. Both were deployed at about the same time in Germany around 1983. I´ve seen MAN tractors, recovery vehicles and support trucks. Many of those were surplussed in the early 90s after the Iron Curtain had come down.

I´ve never seen Patriot launchers being pulled by MANs, but of course, nothing is impossible. All the Patriot batteries I saw had HEMTT tractors and other support vehicles.

You could always recognize the MANs at a distance because the MAN M-1001s were still in MERDC camouflage, while the HEMTTs sported the newer three-colour NATO paint scheme right from the manufacturer.
 

Guyfang

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Sorry to chime in so late, but as far as I know, those MAN M-1001, etc. trucks were mostly used for supporting Pershing-II missiles and GLCMs (Ground Launched Cruise Missiles) in the European theater. Both were deployed at about the same time in Germany around 1983. I´ve seen MAN tractors, recovery vehicles and support trucks. Many of those were surplussed in the early 90s after the Iron Curtain had come down.

I´ve never seen Patriot launchers being pulled by MANs, but of course, nothing is impossible. All the Patriot batteries I saw had HEMTT tractors and other support vehicles.

It wasn't the firing battery's that had them. It was the Support Unit, specifically the 611th Ord, in Meisau. At the 611th, we had a Float Radar and several, (maybe 4-6) Patriot Launchers. Float equipment was a "permanent" Loaner. When a radar or launcher had problems so bad that it could not be returned to FMC, (Fully Mission Capable) status in a timely manner, we "traded" equipment. Then fixed it at our shops in Meisau.

Sadly, due to money and Air Defense politics, our unit had all this equipment, and no way to move it. So the owning unit had to drive to Meisau, from all over Germany, and then drop off the "junker" and then tow the "good" equipment home. That took too much time. So a real smart guy, the Chief of Staff, Maintenance, Col. PP found out that the Pershing and GLCM were going away. And that the Tractors would be more then able to tow our Floats. So he did some kind of dope deal to get several, I think 8 of them Transferred to the 611th.

You could always recognize the MANs at a distance because the MAN M-1001s were still in MERDC camouflage, while the HEMTTs sported the newer three-colour NATO paint scheme right from the manufacturer.
.
 

AAVP7

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That´s an amazing bit of information, thanks very much ! I´m always collecting every information about the US Forces in Germany during the Cold War in the 80s. I grew up just a few hundred yards from an air defence base that first had Nike Hercules, and then Patriot missiles. Probably, that got me infected by the green bug... ;-)
 

Guyfang

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That´s an amazing bit of information, thanks very much ! I´m always collecting every information about the US Forces in Germany during the Cold War in the 80s. I grew up just a few hundred yards from an air defence base that first had Nike Hercules, and then Patriot missiles. Probably, that got me infected by the green bug... ;-)
Where at?
 

Karl kostman

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I find this very interesting I was led to believe that the only MAN trucks the US Military ever used were the 4 axle 8x8 used as mobile launching platforms for the Nike missile system, I had no clue we ever used the 4x4 version at all? Good info!
 

AAVP7

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Where at?
The site was near Holzwickede-Hengsen, near Dortmund. Basically protecting the Ruhr area against those expected russian bombers.

That site was situated in the British zone of occupation, but I´m pretty sure that it was manned by US troops in the 80s when it was still a Nike site. As kids, we loved to sneak up as close to the fence as possible, and we could recognize the woodland pattern of the guard´s uniforms which was clearly different from the British DPM you saw here everywhere at that time.
As far as I heard, the Nike site was then handed over to Belgian troops for a short time, before then converting to a Patriot site. After the end of the Cold War, the site was abandoned, and is now occasionally used by the local police SWAT team for live-fire exercises.
 

Guyfang

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I went to every Patriot site in Germany, in 1990, to prep units for deployment. Don't remember Dortmund. If your really interested in the ADA world, google 32 AADCOM. There is a web page that tells the story of the AADCOM in detail. We were a division sized element. I spent 18 years in the AADCOM. Hawk and Patriot. BUT, am NOT a Duck Hunter.
 

AAVP7

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I´m pretty sure that when the Dortmund/Hengsen missile site converted to Patriot, those Patriots were Bundeswehr (german army) missiles, no longer U.S. ones. So in the 90s the site was manned only with Bundeswehr troops, as far as local rumor went.
I guess one reason for this was that Nike had a nuclear capability (and those warheads were always guarded by U.S. troops), while Patriot didn´t have that. When West German troops used nuclear-capable weapons, they always had U.S. troops attached who had full custody over the warheads.

One day, when I go into retirement, I´ll have to write up the exact history of that missile site. There are a lot of rumors in the local population, sometimes a newspaper article, but nothing solid and complete.

About ten years ago, I visited another Nike site, a hundred kilometers north of here. That one was never converted from Nike to Patriot, so you could still recognize the pads for the Nke launch systems, the hangars (which were still there), and most of the other buildings. Of course, all the missile equipment had been removed.

But I´m deviating from the topic here. This topic was meant to thank you guys for the work you´ve done, and I would like to add my thanks, too.
 

Guyfang

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I´m pretty sure that when the Dortmund/Hengsen missile site converted to Patriot, those Patriots were Bundeswehr (german army) missiles, no longer U.S. ones. So in the 90s the site was manned only with Bundeswehr troops, as far as local rumor went.
I guess one reason for this was that Nike had a nuclear capability (and those warheads were always guarded by U.S. troops), while Patriot didn´t have that. When West German troops used nuclear-capable weapons, they always had U.S. troops attached who had full custody over the warheads.

One day, when I go into retirement, I´ll have to write up the exact history of that missile site. There are a lot of rumors in the local population, sometimes a newspaper article, but nothing solid and complete.

About ten years ago, I visited another Nike site, a hundred kilometers north of here. That one was never converted from Nike to Patriot, so you could still recognize the pads for the Nke launch systems, the hangars (which were still there), and most of the other buildings. Of course, all the missile equipment had been removed.

But I´m deviating from the topic here. This topic was meant to thank you guys for the work you´ve done, and I would like to add my thanks, too.
Come down to Burgkunstadt, and I will take you to a HAWK site near here. I was in that unit 10.5 years. Beers better here TOO!!!!!!
 
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