Thoughts on the onslaught of State Laws that Pull us of the road

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Reworked LMTV

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Interesting Avatar picture you have Wheelspinner. I believe that was the top secret invisible floating 5 ton suspension or you were visiting downtown Detroit.
 

DeadParrot

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As someone who used to work for state government in OK as an IT person, the various agencies don't work in a vacuum. They attend conferences, sometimes national, sometimes regional. Sometimes the leaders go, sometimes middle management, rarely the folks that really do the work. (They often want to take a laptop if they are giving a presentation.) Very likely that at one of these recent DMV conferences, there was a speaker or discussion on the large number of surplus HMMWVs coming on the market. Even if the discussion wasn't slanted one way or the other, the attendees likely left with the impression that "We need to get in front of this." How this translated to action back in the various states would depend on how the official felt about HMMWVs and MVs.
 

Reworked LMTV

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LOL When a Leftist goes to war....
I just keeping getting a vision of a lifted 4WD Prius with an old Bernie Sticker with two skinny guys with beards hanging out the windows yelling "Pew! Pew! Pew! take that you non-politically correct war monger!"


I don't think so. Here's what I'm seeing -

For every MD or CO, we have an ID or TX. TX law explicitly provides for unrestricted titles and on road license plates for M998 HMMWVs that were sold with the offroad stamp....

Granted, the HMMWV sales greatly increased public awareness of the existence of military surplus vehicles. GP did a much better job advertising and expanded awareness.

But what we're seeing with these laws is just more of the culture war. The Left views the MV hobby as an activity of the right and wants to restrict or prohibit it merely as a means of throwing a rock at people they dont like.

Consider this - this single most important variable as to whether or not you'll get your MV titled and plated is who you get behind the counter at the DMV office. Get some leftist who doesn't think you should be permitted to have them and the answer is "NO!" even if black letter law clearly allows them. Conversely, consider all the MVs registered and titled in areas where DMV policy supposedly prohibits it...
 

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Crapgame

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When MV that were sold as off road only showed up on the market people had to find a loop hole and get a on road title. The efforts to get around the intent of the law has caused the law changes, and law changes will continue as long as people try to get around the intent of the law. Just my 2 cents.
The problem is, their original claim Mil Veh are not up to standards is being deceptive. By their statement you would think mil veh are not safe to drive on public roads or autobahns, but vehicles that are designed and built to serve during WAR are built to a higher standard, just lacking the finery like sound proofing/heat insulation, as well as electronic amenities, when mostly they are only missing a tag light and automatic backup lights. My HMMWV is built tougher than any Prius or Fiat you see on the road, you just have trouble hearing the person next to you talking at a normal tone...

My theory is its progressives pushing an unofficial, ie, unlawful, environmental policy, as well as removing menacing (in their minds) vehicles off the roads, more progressives forcing their beliefs, their life choices and preferences on everybody else because they feel they have some sort of false moral superiority. And probably acting out of an assumption most Mil Vehicle owners are right-leaning, Conservative or Trump supporters so they feel they are fighting "impending ice age, no, global warming, no climate change, as well as punishing their political opposition. Example the Colorado law was originally supposed to be written to correct the actions taken by local DMV directors but in action, it kicked the policy decision down to the very local DMV directors that were acting beyond/outside the law to begin with, something they are supposed to be correcting this session.

My former mil vehicle club fought long and hard to get the original law passed by the Colorado State Legislature only to have bureaucrats years later acting beyond the law that was passed by due process.
 

jeffhuey1n

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This discussion is very informative. What it sounds like is some state governments don’t like big and green. They’ll let you play with them off road but you better never drive one on a road except for parades. Maybe car shows. I don’t know what others do with their trucks/equip. I’ve got my trucks. Some run, some don’t. For the most part, all of them are running with Pioneer tags; pioneer tags indicate the vehicle is 25+years old. The only one, so far, that has regular tags is my M1009. An idea that’s always been in the back of my mind is what happens if my local is hit with a major event. Earthquake, hurricane, tornado etc., how would I respond? It’s impossible to think through all the variables but by having the basics, responses can be adjusted. The basics include a good running, properly maintained truck, ensure all the consumables are topped off and (hopefully) ensure you’ve got good tires. At this point, all you’ll need is driver related supplies, i.e. food, water, clothing, camping equipment and of course stuff like donuts, candy bars, a few cases of your favorite soda, any medicines... No, you won’t be able to cruise around town showing off your baby but if the fecal matter hits the rotating oscillator, you’ll be ready to go.
 

simp5782

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The more that I think about these issues, the more i think "How strong is the will of everyone on this SS site to fight?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgT8CAz-KmE


Got flood?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzsJZQi1FnI
Those morons in the second video are people you do not want to represent the trucks in a recovery. They are off on their own and usually they are the ones needing to be saved. Like the LMTVs under water.

I just want to see what those morons would do if a water moccasin came thru windshield
 

sandcobra164

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We had alot of rain a few years ago and the County Commissioner came to my house and asked if I would mind using my truck for any "High Water Rescue" missions. I asked if the county would help me re-pack the wheel bearings afterwards and was told "No". It wasn't a Flash Flood and people who lived on the creek knew the water was coming. I still pulled alot of vehicles out of the newly created muck but I never took my truck in water deeper than the tires sidewalls. I'd have thought differently is life safety was a concern as it's just a truck. I didn't receive a penny from the county but a guy I pulled out of a mess followed me to the gas station and filled my tank on his dime and told me to go get more out. He had an Excursion pulling an enclosed trailer and that was the only truck that made the 5 ton grunt a little getting freed up. The back axle of his truck was sitting on the ground, tires were sunk.
 

Reworked LMTV

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Those morons in the second video are people you do not want to represent the trucks in a recovery. They are off on their own and usually they are the ones needing to be saved. Like the LMTVs under water.

I just want to see what those morons would do if a water moccasin came thru windshield
Actually this is the wrong video for this post. Removed due to lack of teeth lol
 

coachgeo

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On the record:

View attachment 772682
borrowed this from another member named "Hometown" post. Apparently, it has no basis in actual law, but it is interesting to see how it was spun. I will add a link to this member's posts.
As another mentions in here.... Believe this to be absolutely false information FOR troop and other larger rigs... you see they fall closer to the classification of a "commercial vehicle" and the safety standards are different for them and most would actually pass them such as the LMTV and others.....

Unfortunately there is an argument with Hummers and some others for, they fall closer to a classification of Pickups/automobiles etc. so there is a valid argument "when arguing standards of safety" (not that I don't think this should be waveable with signed documents and matching insurance )
 
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Reworked LMTV

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Same is true for amendments:


How does the average US citizen go about getting a state law passed? “Average” US citizen means not formally involved in federal, state, or local government.








[FONT=q_serif]Adam Nyhan, Attorney at Opticliff Law

Updated Apr 14, 2016 · Upvoted by Marc Bodnick, Harvard Gov major, Stanford PoliSci PhD student and Dana H. Shultz, Lawyer for startups in or coming to the U.S.








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I've worked in a state legislature (Minnesota). And I've worked in Congress and lobbied.
Short answer: do your homework, then pick your allies carefully and hit the phones. The basic steps are:
1. Learn the policy.
2. Learn the politics.
3. Identify key legislators in both chambers of the legislature to sponsor the bills.
4. Consider whether & how to ally yourself with lobbyists and NGOs (non-governmental organizations), both of which will become involved if your efforts gain momentum whether you like it or not.
5. Learn how lobbying works in real life, because now you're a lobbyist.
6. Start making phone calls.
Detailed answer:
This will be clearer with a running example: let's say you want your legislature to ban the sale of soft drinks in public high school vending machines statewide, on the theory that this will lower youth obesity. [1]
1. Learn the policy.
Before you get into the politics, understand how the new law would actually change the status quo. In as much detail as possible. For example:


  • does the state government even have the right to pass this law? Is it the type of thing that the U.S. Constitution allows only the federal government to regulate? would the law require an amendment to the state constitution?
  • what are all the state governmental agencies that would have to play any role in implementing and enforcing the new law? would the new law simply require authorization (i.e., a law that simply permits a change in the law and orders state agencies to implement it)? or would it also require an appropriation? (the type of law that takes a set number of dollars out of the state's treasury to pay for something new).
  • what exactly are the details of the new law? In our example, exactly what types of drinks would be banned? defining a "soft drink" may not be as easy as you think.
2. Learn the politics.
Legislators are human beings. They are subject to political influences that will push them toward a vote for or against your proposed law independently of their views on the pure merits of the policy. So you have to research the political landscape, for two reasons. First, you need it to plan your own strategy. Second, once you ask legislators to support you, they may want your help understanding the political canvas. You need to know things like:


  • has this new law (or anything remotely like it) ever been proposed in your state? in other states? if so, how did the major parties tend to vote on it? when legislators deviated from their party peers, what factors can you identify that made them break ranks?
  • what are the most likely voting scenarios that you can identify based on general party philosophies? In our example, you'd start with the assumption that many or most Republicans would oppose the bill because they tend to favor market-driven solutions and not government health mandates.
  • now get more detailed. There will be a few Republicans who break ranks with their party -- maybe they feel especially strongly about obesity, who knows? And there will be Democrats who vote against your bill -- maybe they have major campaign contributors that are soda makers; maybe Pepsi employs 5,000 people in their district; who knows?
  • don't forget the Governor; she still has to sign whatever bill the legislature passes.
3. Identify your bill's sponsors.
If you've gotten this far, then by now you have a decent idea of which legislators are most likely to vote for this. Of them, a small number are good candidates to be the bill's author(every bill must have an author, a.k.a. sponsor, to introduce it in the legislature. There needs to be one in the Senate and another in the House/Assembly). You want two people who genuinely care passionately about this issue, first and foremost. Ideally, they are also people who have a compelling "story to tell," something personal to explain why they are carrying this torch. Maybe the author has struggled with obesity herself. Maybe young people in her district do. But to persuade the public that this issue matters, it helps to be able to tell a story that moves people.
4. Consider allying with NGOs and other lobbies.
There are NGOs (e.g. Planned Parenthood, the National Rifle Association, Greenpeace) and other lobbyists (e.g. those for Coke & Pepsi, the National Association of School Principals, the teachers' unions) that work on virtually every issue you could think of. This means that they can be excellent sources of information to you. And they also have far more experience than you with both the policy and the politics of your issue; and they likely have good relationships already with your would-be authors. Which means that it may be worth contacting these lobbyists early to ask if you can work with them. Here, just search the web to find groups that seem interested in something as close to your issue as possible. If you can't find a group already lobbying on your exact issue, find one working on something similar and ask them if they know of leads.
But: everybody has an agenda. That's not a bad thing, but it's reality. If you ally yourself with an NGO or lobbyist, you may later feel that your campaign has been hijacked by the veterans. However, this may happen whether or not you reach out to them early in your campaign; if your campaign gains traction, the vested interests will take note and may get involved. Here again homework pays off.
5. Learn how lobbying actually works.
You are now a citizen lobbyist, so learn what you actually do when you meet with a legislator (or more likely, at first you'll meet her staff). I give a cheat sheet here: Adam Nyhan's answer to What do lobbyists talk about when they court politicians and regulators?
6. Hit the phones.
Now it's time to start calling your elected officials. Start with your #1 choices and just call their offices, explain that you'd like the Senator or Representative/Delegate/Assemblyperson to author a bill, and that you'd like to meet with the staffer who would handle that issue to discuss the idea. You're off to the races.
___________________________________________
Source:
[1] In real life, New York City is considering this as of mid-2013.


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Ajax MD

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Every single statement is false. With the MVPA basically turning their backs and no real lobbying group representative of the more modern vehicles this will continue to happen more and more.

Unfortunately as we all sit here talking about it on Social Media/interwebs-we believe we are doing something. This interaction although informative is worthless in changing the tide Please get active in your local/state government; be vocal and annoying. Its the only way.
You gotta be kidding. I just paid for a membership with MVPA with the intention of enlisting their help in Maryland. What has been the MVPA's position so far, regarding states attempting to ban MV's? What have their responses been?
 

Reworked LMTV

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You gotta be kidding. I just paid for a membership with MVPA with the intention of enlisting their help in Maryland. What has been the MVPA's position so far, regarding states attempting to ban MV's? What have their responses been?
Yes, the MVPA has acted impotent in this movement.

The AAMVA is where the problems begin. Our efforts should be focused there, as they influence the entire USA and beyond. In fact, even Canada follows them. I am not sure about Europe, be I will be that they at least review the recommendations. I am doing some preliminary work in the background to get a Coalition together to help educate them, using a professional approach. Bad legislation is often a result of lack of a thorough education or special interest groups with a budget and an agenda. Legislators often base decisions on quite limited information. If just needs to be corrected.

If you are interested, please PM me. This needs to be a coordinated effort or it will be a disaster. A lone mad 'wolf" with a temper will kill our efforts. If you have strong legal or professional business credentials, that's a real bonus. In these cases "the pen IS mightier than the sword (HAMMER)". If one of us pulls out a hammer and starts pestering the AAMVA, we're screwed.
 
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Ajax MD

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Yes, the MVPA has acted impotent in this movement.

The AAMVA is where the problems begin. Our efforts should be focused there, as they influence the entire USA and beyond. In fact, even Canada follows them. I am not sure about Europe, be I will be that they at least review the recommendations. I am doing some preliminary work in the background to get a Coalition together to help educate them, using a professional approach. Bad legislation is often a result of lack of a thorough education or special interest groups with a budget and an agenda. Legislators often base decisions on quite limited information. If just needs to be corrected.

If you are interested, please PM me. This needs to be a coordinated effort or it will be a disaster. A lone mad 'wolf" with a temper will kill our efforts. If you have strong legal or professional business credentials, that's a real bonus. In these cases "the pen IS mightier than the sword (HAMMER)". If one of us pulls out a hammer and starts pestering the AAMVA, we're screwed.
I haven't contacted anyone at AAMVA. So far, I have joined and emailed the MVPA about the issue in Maryland.
I received a prompt response from MVPA and I have widened the discussion. We'll see where it leads.
 

Reworked LMTV

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I haven't contacted anyone at AAMVA. So far, I have joined and emailed the MVPA about the issue in Maryland.
I received a prompt response from MVPA and I have widened the discussion. We'll see where it leads.
I was not suggesting that you had contacted them, just that sometimes people in general, use a hammer and ruin it for others : )
 

Reworked LMTV

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I haven't contacted anyone at AAMVA. So far, I have joined and emailed the MVPA about the issue in Maryland.
I received a prompt response from MVPA and I have widened the discussion. We'll see where it leads.
I'd be interested to know what you find out. I am not anti-MVPA, but am concerned about their relative inaction when times have drastically changed. Times when we all face a loss of a hobby, loss of a place to camp and enjoy life (RV), and huge monetary losses. Particularly those who have businesses related to MV's.
 
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