Towing a M105a2 w/ civilian Pick Up ?

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swbradley1

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I was going to point out the new Dodge's can tow up to 30,000lbs but of course that is with brakes.

Lots of new civi trailers don't have brakes.
 

98G

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June 12th, 2015.

The M105 is too much trailer for any civilian pickup, I don't care how you modify the trailer or the truck. They were designed for a two and a half ton medium truck, and even your 2500/3500 's are mere toys by comparison. .:roll:
My counterargument: M105A2 with 3000lbs of ammo cans in it. Towed at highway speeds with no detriment to braking (exhaust brake) and no pushing the truck around. Also towed on fairly rough dirt road without issue.
 

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John Galt

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Some drama queens here. In TX, no brakes needed below 4.5K. An empty 105 is 2.5K. Obviously, the more level you can get it the better. I had a tall plate and it was still very nose down but it towed fine at freeway speeds behind a 1/2 ton Tundra. Recovery is just like an 101 and 110X. Brakes up, lights on, go. Pretty sure my loaded up 101 weighs more than an empty 105.

I would post a pic but don't like the rules for posting pics.
 

rustystud

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Some drama queens here. In TX, no brakes needed below 4.5K. An empty 105 is 2.5K. Obviously, the more level you can get it the better. I had a tall plate and it was still very nose down but it towed fine at freeway speeds behind a 1/2 ton Tundra. Recovery is just like an 101 and 110X. Brakes up, lights on, go. Pretty sure my loaded up 101 weighs more than an empty 105.

I would post a pic but don't like the rules for posting pics.
If you want real drama try towing that trailer here in Washington with all our little hills like the Cascade Mountains ! Then you would find out real fast that your little truck was no match for that loaded trailer ! There are reasons that different areas have different laws regarding who can tow what, when and where . From your response I can tell you do not have a commercial driving license or driven a 18 wheeler with a fully loaded trailer. If you had then you response would not have been so cavalier . After having been in a severe accident involving a trailer with brake issues I can assure you towing is a serious affair and should be treated as such.
 

tobyS

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Dexter axle (under-slung with electric brakes) and hummer tires bring it down a bit. Here is my version (under construction).
 

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John Galt

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The conversation is about an empty 105. Don't think anyone is arguing that a loaded 105 is a good idea behind a pickup. Not talking about regular use either, just recovery.

The average quality built civilian tandem axle trailer is close to the 105 weight.

It's just a 2500 lb trailer behind a 6-9k lbs pickup. Not really comparable to semi truck/trailer.

Around here, you would be hard pressed to find a single axle trailer with brakes on it. It's common for people to haul a utv plus gear on them. Add that all up and you are likely heavier than an empty 105.

Would it be less of a concern if the 105 was placed on the bed of the pickup? I am sure a 1 ton could handle the payload. No trailer brakes in that situation either.
 

98G

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If you want real drama try towing that trailer here in Washington with all our little hills like the Cascade Mountains ! Then you would find out real fast that your little truck was no match for that loaded trailer !



Does this 8% grade up and over Franklin Mountain just outside of Ft Bliss count?
 

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98G

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Would it be less of a concern if the 105 was placed on the bed of the pickup? I am sure a 1 ton could handle the payload. No trailer brakes in that situation either.[/QUOTE]

Actually yes, it would be far less of a concern. Your traction would go up in proportion to the braked load.
 

98G

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From your response I can tell you do not have a commercial driving license or driven a 18 wheeler with a fully loaded trailer.... I can assure you towing is a serious affair and should be treated as such.[/QUOTE]


I realize this wasn't directed at me, but although not current I have had a class A CDL with hazmat and doubles endorsement. I didn't suddenly forget everything when my driving no longer required the CDL.

Your posts are usually quite informative and I've actually learned quite a bit from you on here. Let me tell you the thought process that led to me pulling the loaded 105 with the Ram 3500 and you can comment on it. Maybe I'll learn something.

I've towbarred trucks up to 7500lbs or so behind the Ram without issue. Obviously the towed vehicle is unbraked when towing with towbars. I conjecture that the 5500lb evenly loaded M105 is actually better controlled than say a 5500lb M1009 because at least the M105 transfers some weight to the tongue.

You'll note that the 105 is reasonably level behind the Ram. The rear bumper is custom made with a custom integral hitch set much higher in order to tow military trailers level (actually optimized for the M1101's height). It is not just a riser that would multiply twisting forces and break things.

I don't know it all. I'm willing to learn from anyone that may know something I don't.
 

98G

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""The M105 is too much trailer for any civilian pickup, I don't care how you modify the trailer or the truck. They were designed for a two and a half ton medium truck, and even your 2500/3500 's are mere toys by comparison. .""

The M105 was designed for a 2.5 ton medium truck built with 1950s technology. Let's compare the 1950's tech M35A2 to a modern 1ton pickup...

Horsepower and torque: modern diesel pickup trucks make close to 400HP and 800lbs/ft of torque. Compare that to the fairly anemic 140ish HP of the M35...

Rated GCVWR of the typical 1ton pickup is 25,000-30,000 lbs, which is right there with the M35 or a touch higher.

Braking. When towing, your first point of failure will almost always be braking. Tow vehicles can usually pull well in excess of what they can stop (which results in crashes). And this is where the deuce really hurts. A modern diesel pickup truck with a manual transmission in combination with an exhaust brake and huge disk brakes equipped with ABS will stop a heavy load in a shorter distance than the M35. For extended braking down long steep hills the exhaust brake will do a much better job than the deuce's air over hydraulic brakes.
 
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Csm Davis

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I love you guys! Did anybody notice the OP got a M101A2?
Many of you are safety concerned and believe the military had it all figured out, I bleed green and I will say they tried but I will use my common sense to determine what I do. Now as to the other guys jeeps and half ton pickups should leave the 105's to the big boys unless you hook up braking on the trailer. 4x4 3/4 or one ton trucks will handle them fine especially if you hookup brakes.
 
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3rdaavbn

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I pulled a 105 with a NOS multi fuel engine and tranny in the trailer, from WV to Clinto's place outside Atlanta, GA.
I used my Ram1500 with a 5.7 Hemi. It pulled very well even through the mountains.
I also used a raised hitch.
 

rustystud

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""The M105 is too much trailer for any civilian pickup, I don't care how you modify the trailer or the truck. They were designed for a two and a half ton medium truck, and even your 2500/3500 's are mere toys by comparison. .""

The M105 was designed for a 2.5 ton medium truck built with 1950s technology. Let's compare the 1950's tech M35A2 to a modern 1ton pickup...

Horsepower and torque: modern diesel pickup trucks make close to 400HP and 800lbs/ft of torque. Compare that to the fairly anemic 140ish HP of the M35...

Rated GCVWR of the typical 1ton pickup is 25,000-30,000 lbs, which is right there with the M35 or a touch higher.

Braking. When towing, your first point of failure will almost always be braking. Tow vehicles can usually pull well in excess of what they can stop (which results in crashes). And this is where the deuce really hurts. A modern diesel pickup truck with a manual transmission in combination with an exhaust brake and huge disk brakes equipped with ABS will stop a heavy load in a shorter distance than the M35. For extended braking down long steep hills the exhaust brake will do a much better job than the deuce's air over hydraulic brakes.
You can have the best brakes in the world, but if you don't have the weight to handle the load then the load will handle you ! Your 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks weigh how much on average ? Around 5,000 Ibs. You load a M105 trailer and your looking at 4,000 Ibs. Now who is going to stop who here ? The trailer will push through your great brakes causing your really mighty (400 HP) trucks to skid all over the place. If we where talking about a fifth wheel trailer that would be a different story as the weight is centered over the rear axle and even if the trailer had no brakes the towing truck would have a better chance of stopping it.
I have towed cars and trucks with my truck and more then once the towed vehicle pushed me ! Once it was through a intersection causing me to jackknife . If you tow with the bed fully loaded that will give you a better chance of stopping and not skidding.
 

rustystud

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From your response I can tell you do not have a commercial driving license or driven a 18 wheeler with a fully loaded trailer.... I can assure you towing is a serious affair and should be treated as such.

I realize this wasn't directed at me, but although not current I have had a class A CDL with hazmat and doubles endorsement. I didn't suddenly forget everything when my driving no longer required the CDL.

Your posts are usually quite informative and I've actually learned quite a bit from you on here. Let me tell you the thought process that led to me pulling the loaded 105 with the Ram 3500 and you can comment on it. Maybe I'll learn something.

I've towbarred trucks up to 7500lbs or so behind the Ram without issue. Obviously the towed vehicle is unbraked when towing with towbars. I conjecture that the 5500lb evenly loaded M105 is actually better controlled than say a 5500lb M1009 because at least the M105 transfers some weight to the tongue.

You'll note that the 105 is reasonably level behind the Ram. The rear bumper is custom made with a custom integral hitch set much higher in order to tow military trailers level (actually optimized for the M1101's height). It is not just a riser that would multiply twisting forces and break things.

I don't know it all. I'm willing to learn from anyone that may know something I don't.[/QUOTE]

If you had a class A CDL then you must have went to some schooling to get it. At least in this state you are required to go to school and then prove your mastery of the vehicle driving a state patrol agent around for 3 hours, plus you must be working for a company that requires you to have it or prove you need it for personal use. Also if you drove with doubles then you know the extreme dangers of towing and the whipping effect they can cause. Of course you live in Arizona. I went to trade school there in Phoenix, and I know the ground is flat as a pancake and usually very dry (except in August when the rains come ) . This will definitely effect how a vehicle or trailer tows. Come up here to Washington where it rains almost 300 days a year and the hills can be over 3,000 ft. tall . Then start towing your trailers or vehicles with no brakes. It will not take long before your singing a new song . As far as my experience goes I have had my class "A" with all the endorsements including triples for 25 years now and the most dangerous thing on the road is the other drivers. Your towing with your rig and some nut job on his cell phone cuts you off and then hits his brakes. If your towing with no trailer brakes and towing more then you can safely handle your going to hit this idiot. One thing that was not mentioned about all this great towing ability of the NEW trucks is what kind of towing can they safely tow 30,000 Ibs at ? I am very sure it will say in your owners manual they are talking about fifth wheel trailers, not pintle hooks .
On personal note, why did you let your class "A" CDL lapse ? Considering how hard they are to get I'll keep mine until I can no longer drive.
 
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98G

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On personal note, why did you let your class "A" CDL lapse ? Considering how hard they are to get I'll keep mine until I can no longer drive.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't driving for a living any more and didn't have a personal vehicle that required it.

My 1ton pickup weighs about 8300lbs.

I'm in AZ now. I grew up in KY. Been all over since. I'm familiar with roads that aren't flat and straight....
 

Csm Davis

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You can have the best brakes in the world, but if you don't have the weight to handle the load then the load will handle you ! Your 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks weigh how much on average ?
Around 5,000 Ibs.
NO
Try again 7000 lbs average, big 4 door 4x4 diesel dually around 9000 lbs. I personally own one of these trucks and have a 3500 lbs bumper pull trailer that has no brakes on it, but even with a 5500 lbs CUCV on it I have no problem stopping it. No Ms has no mountains but you don't have a corner on mountains and I have used my trucks in the hills and snow and ice and even ramped an oak tree in a hurricane, woopie do if your bumper pull weight doesn't out weigh your vehicle you should be okay with a 3/4 or 1 ton. Now here's a question is the max load weight for a 105 on the road 3000 or 6000 plus the weight of the trailer? So possibly still able to overload a dually? I think everyone should be careful and I believe that is all any of us including Rusty want.

You load a M105 trailer and your looking at 4,000 Ibs. Now who is going to stop who here ? The trailer will push through your great brakes causing your really mighty (400 HP) trucks to skid all over the place. If we where talking about a fifth wheel trailer that would be a different story as the weight is centered over the rear axle and even if the trailer had no brakes the towing truck would have a better chance of stopping it.
I have towed cars and trucks with my truck and more then once the towed vehicle pushed me ! Once it was through a intersection causing me to jackknife . If you tow with the bed fully loaded that will give you a better chance of stopping and not skidding.
 

SteveKuhn

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98G: "...The rear bumper is custom made with a custom integral hitch set much higher in order to tow military trailers level (actually optimized for the M1101's height). It is not just a riser that would multiply twisting forces and break things..."

I'd like to see some photos of that setup and any details you might be able to provide.

Steve
 
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