Turboing a 6.2l build (another one)

Greasy

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Dsilverline, hello from a fellow Californian! Thank you for your step by step install with pictures. Recently I purchased locally a GM 6.5 turbo set up (and other items) and will install it on my M-1009. Can you describe more your turbo oil feed line set up, long with your electric fuel pump? Currently I am gathering parts for my install.
 

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Ilikemtb999

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Dsilverline, hello from a fellow Californian! Thank you for your step by step install with pictures. Recently I purchased locally a GM 6.5 turbo set up (and other items) and will install it on my M-1009. Can you describe more your turbo oil feed line set up, long with your electric fuel pump? Currently I am gathering parts for my install.
I was able to find a 4an braided line off ebay that fit perfectly on mine. I'll snap some pictures.
 

IdahoPlowboy

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Great thread and info. I did the Banks kit on my 1028 and I totally love it. I have 36 inch Swampers and a 4 inch lift and this truck rocks right of the start even in deep snow and mud. I am going to do one on my 1009 soon.
 

Keith_J

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My twin turbo variable nozzle Frankenstein project is a go, found the rare compressor map for the selected turbos. Looks like a combined 30 pounds mass of air at 15 PSI gauge and 72% efficiency so no need for intercooler.
Stock, the engine theoretically gulps 400 cubic feet of air at 3600 RPM. Volumetric efficiency at this point is a horrible 65% calculated by exhaust gas temperature, heat rejection and power produced. Volumetric efficiency doesn't change appreciably with boost pressure, only mass flow increases. I will save you the math, boosting to 15 PSI at these levels and max engine speed nets about 225 HP..calculated.

The main reason for the twins is to get boost pressure down low, where volumetric efficiency is in the 85% range. Like 1500 RPM.
gt1544vrate.jpg

This compressor map is rare as the turbos are OEM ,Garrett keeps OEM data secret. I knew from engine data they were ballpark correct but still wanted hard data before spending hundreds of hours on manifold fabrication and all the supporting work.

Variable nozzle control is the other issue. Any fault could cause turbine over speed, compressor choke and failure. There is a lot of energy trading places here very fast. 15 horsepower at 225,000 RPM is a bomb.
 

Dsilverline

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Hey guys, sorry for anyone who asked questions and I didn't reply. I stopped getting notifications and got caught up with replacing my suspension and now a baby on the way! @Greasy and others, if you are still following the thread and still have questions, let me know, I can reply now.

@Keith_J Wow, I applaud the level of detail you are going into with this! I can say that, yeah, any efforts made to get boost lower down in the RPM range would be a good approach after driving the truck for a bit.

That said, the engine has been kicking ass since the install and will be taking the truck out to King of Hammers this weekend!
 

Keith_J

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Since this is a topic on turbochargers, a little terminology and info should be handy here. I've heard a few complaints on turbochargers with regards to this engine family. Namely turbo lag..which in all accounts is the wrong term. Most turbo systems are designed around a free floating or maximum power design, with or without a waste gate. The original Banks Sidewinder is free floating, factory 6.5 are free floating with waste gate. These attain boost at higher engine speeds, 2400 RPM and above, this isn't turbo lag but boost threshold. Remember, there is no throttle plate in a diesel so mass flow is solely engine speed before things happen to motivate the turbine.
Turbo lag is the result of turbocharger inertia to resist the effects of exhaust flow. In free float design, that would be opening fuel flow at RPM. The mass flow is already at the threshold value, the fuel adds just 1/15 more mass but what is added with fuel is enthalpy, energy which is heat, pressure waves and acoustics. This generates boost. Yes, with increased back pressure, known as drive pressure.

The GM 6.5 systems are a bit higher in drive pressure until boost level is reached. Still, threshold is high compared to modern diesels.

You can lower the threshold with smaller fixed geometry turbos, at the peril of drive pressure and intake choke. But who wants to drive a tractor? On a side note, the turbo lag is decreased but with mechanical injection pump turned up to use this boost, exhaust gas temperature will be excessive at higher engine speeds.

The modern solution is variable geometry turbines. All big three light trucks use them as well as all small road diesels. These work by changing the exhaust gas area in the turbine housing to match the required flow. Gone is turbo lag but also boost threshold is much lower. Yet at higher speeds, exhaust area is increased so drive pressure is lower.

These benefits are expensive. The variable geometry doubles the cost with increased part count plus the control system is usually digital..Chrysler is the only example of a pure pneumatic system in the CSX VNT and a few other models. These days, most variable geometry turbos use direct electronic control, earlier models use vacuum with a computer controlled valve to actuate the variable geometry.

A few gasoline engines use these turbos today, all are direct injected so they mimic the exhaust flow characteristics of a diesel, even though a spark is still needed. Ford's EcoBoost line is one example. They still are sensitive to exhaust gas heat.

The benefits are why I am going this route. I have a few ideas for control, from an Arduino computer ( I have the code, hardware and components) to a stand alone controller called a Digiboost. But that is a few hundred pounds Sterling and a trip over the pond. Now if only I didn't have this 65 hour a week distraction..it does pay the bills.
 

Sharecropper

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Since this is a topic on turbochargers, a little terminology and info should be handy here. I've heard a few complaints on turbochargers with regards to this engine family. Namely turbo lag..which in all accounts is the wrong term. Most turbo systems are designed around a free floating or maximum power design, with or without a waste gate. The original Banks Sidewinder is free floating, factory 6.5 are free floating with waste gate. These attain boost at higher engine speeds, 2400 RPM and above, this isn't turbo lag but boost threshold. Remember, there is no throttle plate in a diesel so mass flow is solely engine speed before things happen to motivate the turbine.
Turbo lag is the result of turbocharger inertia to resist the effects of exhaust flow. In free float design, that would be opening fuel flow at RPM. The mass flow is already at the threshold value, the fuel adds just 1/15 more mass but what is added with fuel is enthalpy, energy which is heat, pressure waves and acoustics. This generates boost. Yes, with increased back pressure, known as drive pressure.

The GM 6.5 systems are a bit higher in drive pressure until boost level is reached. Still, threshold is high compared to modern diesels.

You can lower the threshold with smaller fixed geometry turbos, at the peril of drive pressure and intake choke. But who wants to drive a tractor? On a side note, the turbo lag is decreased but with mechanical injection pump turned up to use this boost, exhaust gas temperature will be excessive at higher engine speeds.

The modern solution is variable geometry turbines. All big three light trucks use them as well as all small road diesels. These work by changing the exhaust gas area in the turbine housing to match the required flow. Gone is turbo lag but also boost threshold is much lower. Yet at higher speeds, exhaust area is increased so drive pressure is lower.

These benefits are expensive. The variable geometry doubles the cost with increased part count plus the control system is usually digital..Chrysler is the only example of a pure pneumatic system in the CSX VNT and a few other models. These days, most variable geometry turbos use direct electronic control, earlier models use vacuum with a computer controlled valve to actuate the variable geometry.

A few gasoline engines use these turbos today, all are direct injected so they mimic the exhaust flow characteristics of a diesel, even though a spark is still needed. Ford's EcoBoost line is one example. They still are sensitive to exhaust gas heat.

The benefits are why I am going this route. I have a few ideas for control, from an Arduino computer ( I have the code, hardware and components) to a stand alone controller called a Digiboost. But that is a few hundred pounds Sterling and a trip over the pond. Now if only I didn't have this 65 hour a week distraction..it does pay the bills.

Keith - Thank you for that great write-up.
 

Keith_J

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The usual scumbags delivered, correctly too..both needed for project twin VNT.20210205_231825.jpg

The author of the book is a local chap, quite affable too. While the book is 23 years old, most applies. I met him 12 years ago..might need to pique his talents on this on.

Head studs are a must, still on the fence about what gaskets. Or if I want to pull the slugs and have them turned for a lower compression ratio. If that route, they will get ceramic coating to reduce radiant heat transfer. One coating I found is catalytic, oxidizing soot to maintain reflective properties.
 

Keith_J

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Schertz TX
And when you pull heads, the very least should be cleaning and non destructive testing. Magnaflux is shop only, nearly as good is dye penetrant testing. Check mark, again from the usual scumbags and my employee discount 16125897359454379685757927581627.jpg

The process is easy. First, clean the head with Diesel Mechanic in a Bottle. Let it chooch for an hour, then scrub with a nylon brush. Rinse with water and let dry. Then repeat with the NDT kit solvent. Dry with lint free materials, then apply penetrant. This is messy so glove up. Let it set for at least 5 minutes. More is better. Then blot up all excess with lint free materials. Now is the art..using clean lint free material, dampen the material with a bit of the spray cleaner, just damp. Clean all surfaces. Q tips for certain areas. Never spray with cleaner or wet the surface, just flash dry.
Now the developer. Spray with light coats, letting it flash off until the surfaces are white when dry.

The development takes time, depending on the indication (flaw) nature. It will show any crack or crevice. There will be indication around valve seats and pre combustion chamber inserts, you are looking for radial cracks from these areas and any porosity from casting defects.

As always, read and follow the instructions. Prudence the Safety Goat requires that especially for the home shop use. Safety McGlasses and good ventilation a must. Chill the coffin nails and extinguish all ignition points, this stuff burns. The dye smells of naphthalene..moth balls (I cannot get their legs apart to tell but I know it smells of Aunty Adele's closet)
 
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