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Very specific turn signal problem

cattlerepairman

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Yes - am aware of the other current signal problem thread, but do not wish to hijack the OP's thread. I mentioned this weird behaviour before in somebody else's thread but with no takers for an answer; if you feel deja-vu and think you already read it, you probably did.

Here it goes:

- Grote LED taillights, normal front turn signals, lollipops with LED bulbs

- on startup, 99% of the time the flashers work left/right/4-way correctly, with correct flash intervals and no problems switching on/off and from one to another. Completely normal.

- the flasher unit is near-new and I re-did the ground connection, to ensure it is good

- after "minutes" into the trip, driving with the turn signal off, the turn signal will no longer work when the turn signal switch is activated

- removing the green plastic cap reveals that the indicator lamp will glow faintly when the left turn signal is activated, but there is no flasher action or lighting up of turn signals that I can see. The indicator lamp will not glow in any other stalk position.

- when continuing to drive (or park with engine running) with the stalk in the "left turn" position, the turn signals will **eventually** come back. It can take from a few minutes to half an hour, but so far, they always spontaneously started flashing again. On a side note, that means that by the time I hit heavy downtown traffic, my turn signals no longer work, which makes for truly interesting driving.

- when the turn signal does come back, the flash cycle is sometimes quicker than normal and settles to a normal pace over a few minutes.

- from then on, the turn signals usually work flawlessly, even if left off for a while during the drive.


This has me stumped because it seems so illogical. Obviously, the lights all work, the wiring must be ok, because when the turn signals work, they work well.

Question: What causes this temporary outage? How do I fix it?

If it was a breaker (there is a self-resetting one in the turn signal switch, correct??) then the indicator light would not glow, would it? No juice at all if the breaker tripped.

It is very un-electronic to say, but it "feels" like the unit needs to overcome some internal resistance until it can work again. I already ruled out Gremlins, invisible dwarfs and demonic possession of the truck.

Sure, I could drop another $50, put in yet another flasher unit and keep my fingers crossed - but I'd like some assurance that this is in fact a likely candidate before throwing parts at the truck. If you all think that's what causes it, I'll jump at it. Any chance it could be the turn signal switch itself? I had it apart and cleaned/sprayed the contacts with electronic cleaner but it did not seem to do anything, one way or another.
 
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M1031CMT

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Sounds like a loose connection that connects/disconnects while bumping around down the road. Or the arm assembly is malfunctioning.

On our M35 we had flasher problems. Found out it was both the flasher unit and arm assembly which were messed up in the truck. Usually it is one or the other, but it can sometimes be both.

I would try swapping the arm assembly with another one if you can, to find out if that helps.
 

73m819

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The dim light acts like feed back ( current is coming back though another circuit because of a BAD ground just like a DIM headlight) once the ground heats up or bounces around, the ground is made, the bad ground could be in the controller, corroded wire connector, ect

On the other side of this could be a minnor short ( more of a current drain), that clears up once things heat up or bouncing around,

Also the LED may not have a enough current draw to make the flasher work ( the old stile flasher had points that heated up that opened, this will give a dim indecator light also, leaving things on will cause a heat built and will make things work., once heated up, the flasher tends to stay warm.
 
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cattlerepairman

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The dim light acts like feed back ( current is coming back though another circuit because of a BAD ground just like a DIM headlight) once the ground heats up or bounces around, the ground is made, the bad ground could be in the controller, corroded wire connector, ect
Interesting. I will see if I can verify that....
 

jbsapp

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I had intermittent problems with my signal flasher. Would work when stationary, but after a while, in motion, they would quit. I could leave it on and it would eventually come back on for a while, and then quit later. I replaced the solid state unit and ground the fender ground connection to bare metal before re-attaching the new unit. Works without flaw now. Good luck fixing that problem.
 

Beerslayer

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Also the LED may not have a enough current draw to make the flasher work ( the old stile flasher had points that heated up that opened, this will give a dim indecator light also, leaving things on will cause a heat built and will make things work., once heated up, the flasher tends to stay warm.
This ^^ is what I thought it might be, or similar.

Easy way to test is to unplug the LED light on one side and just plug in an older style light and see if it flashes.

If it does, then wire in a resistor on each side of the circuit. I don't know the exact value but one could check the resistance of a replacement lamp and go with something similar.
 

cattlerepairman

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This ^^ is what I thought it might be, or similar.

Easy way to test is to unplug the LED light on one side and just plug in an older style light and see if it flashes.

If it does, then wire in a resistor on each side of the circuit. I don't know the exact value but one could check the resistance of a replacement lamp and go with something similar.
I was under the impression that the mil spec LED lights do have an internal resistor to avoid exactly this problem.
 

73m819

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This ^^ is what I thought it might be, or similar.

Easy way to test is to unplug the LED light on one side and just plug in an older style light and see if it flashes.

If it does, then wire in a resistor on each side of the circuit. I don't know the exact value but one could check the resistance of a replacement lamp and go with something similar.
BE sure it is grounded with BOTH bolt holes
 

ranchhopper

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Had a friend with similar problem I had him wire a clearance light with a regular incandecent bulb in both turn signal circuits. They all work now and he has a sidemarker light on each side that flashes with the turn signal for added viisbility from the side.
 

Carl_in_NH

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I don't think this problem is related to LED lights. I had a very simular issue, and it was a bad ground to the flasher module itself. There's a single ground wire from the module that grounds to a body panel. Remove, clean the lug and replace the screw, nut, and lockwasher with clean hardware (and clean the rusty hole in the body panel, too).

Mine would work flawlessly some times, and then (when I really needed them) it would fail to flash - sometimes the light on the control lever would be on solid when this happened, other times it would emit a dim glow. After cleaning up the ground connection, all has been well for more than a year.

YMMV.
 

Lex_Ordo

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I had the same issue. It was the grounding strap that holds the flasher lever to the steering wheel shaft. Make sure it is on bare metal & tight.

Also, on a side note, I bought my Grote LEDs direct, after a long conversation with their Military Sales Rep. It seems that the original Grote LEDs, did not have the resister built into the assembly to simulate a voltage load, and thus would not have enough load to trip the flasher unit.

I ended up buying the HMMWV retro-fit kit and the rep threw in two additional older rears. The kit came with two front, two rear and the B/out headlight. All with the new resistors.
I used the two fronts and b/out from the kit, and the older rears w/out the resistors, on my truck, and the two rears from the kit, on my trailer.

The rep told me that there is a enough resistance in one light to run the entire vehicle. That's why I wanted to make sure I had the newer lights on both the truck and the trailer.

As of this writing, three years later...He was right!
 

cattlerepairman

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To close this off:

- ground was ok (I measured w/multimeter and also extended the ground to a point on the firewall - no change)

- replaced turn signal switch; signal light came on but did not flash

- replaced flasher box (it was a sealed "new style" box, marked 2001)

Everything works as it should now.
 

builderboy

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I just had the exact same issue with very similar set up. It drove me absoutley crazy....thanks goodness when I was up at glens salvage yard I grabbed an extra flasher box. (Mine was marked ....05? I think) Anyway repalced flasher box and took almost every ground apart I could find.


Long story short same result.... everything works as it should.

:jumpin:
 

dabtl

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There have been many posts such as this over time here.

On both of my deuces I just got tired of fixing one day only to have the same or similar problems a month or so later.

So, I spent a couple of hours on each, cleaning every ground and replacing the inside/outside lock washers and traced the wiring to make sure there were no bare wires and such.

Three years on an still no problems.
 

35Z-SGM

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If you used electrical tape on any of your connections I would redo them with wire nuts. I had a similar problem when I lived in El Paso. Everything worked fine until it got hot out and then things got wierd. Found that the electrical tape would heat up and get gummy causing poor connections. Hope this helps!
 

PsycoBob

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My M109 developed similar goofyness on the way home from a road trip- I wound up replacing the flasher unit & doing the relay mod. New plug & wires to the flasher & relay, waterproof heatshink on all the connections.

Every truck that I've done that mod to has signals that fail in normal fashion- if one housing doesn't light, bad ground. If one bulb burns out, that's it- no weird stuff. If you can't hear the monster relay I use clunking away over the engine, bad relay/flasher/switch. if one side doesn't light, bad switch or wiring. Much easier to diagnose.
 

MilitaryLightMan

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Grote makes certain lights to be used on anything AMG (HMMWV, 2.5T, 5T) - that has a built in resistance. Otherwise the lack of resistance will reveal itself in many different forms - mainly stemming from the Flasher.... contact me directly if you need assistance - I worked in LED Lighting with Grote (And previously Truck-Lite) for 15 years... 910-358-4131 or matthew.drake@theupc.com
 

cattlerepairman

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Grote makes certain lights to be used on anything AMG (HMMWV, 2.5T, 5T) - that has a built in resistance. Otherwise the lack of resistance will reveal itself in many different forms - mainly stemming from the Flasher.... contact me directly if you need assistance - I worked in LED Lighting with Grote (And previously Truck-Lite) for 15 years... 910-358-4131 or matthew.drake@theupc.com
I should not hijack a thread, but it's my thread. Given your experience, do you have any suggestions for GROTE taillights that lost half of their LEDs? All worked fine; now only 50% of the LEDs illuminate (on one taillight only). Known fixes?
 

welldigger

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I should not hijack a thread, but it's my thread. Given your experience, do you have any suggestions for GROTE taillights that lost half of their LEDs? All worked fine; now only 50% of the LEDs illuminate (on one taillight only). Known fixes?
I have one better. My truck had trucklite omnivolts all the way around when I purchased it. All but one had failed. What could have caused this? And as asked before can anything be done for them or are they toast?
 
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