Wheel Spacers

[skysix]

Lets just say you have 4" worth of lift (ORD with zero rate for example). If I wanted to run stock H1 12bolt rims/military wrangler 37" tires, how thick would the front spacers have to be? I get a variety of answers when I search - depending on how much trimming was done it seems. Also seems to depend on if the axel was moved forward and by how much? Except that I thought that if you used a 2wd box and crossover high steering you would also have to move the box forward...

just getting a bit compicated for this newbies planning skills...

 

[southdave]

Ranchhopper just posted up some info on this... I would PM him and get from the ranchers mouth

 

[skysix]

Found e posts - but he was more into HEMMT wheels on 5-tons than H1 rims on CUCV's...

 

[camoyj7]

Kevin just did a 4" lift with 37" tires on hummer wheels and 2" spacers
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/69525-lift-kit-install-done.html

 

[skysix]

Now how did I miss seeing that fine truck! Questions answered...

 

[WARWAG]

2" spacers. I have them but need to lengthen the stock wheel hub studs so the spacer lug nuts are completely filled with the stud. Right now when I put my spacers on the spacer lug nuts have about a 1/4" of threads showing inside the lug nuts. I will take pics when I can.

 

[skysix]

So.... after researching the TM's I come up with a track width of 67.8" on the front of both the M1028A1 and A2/A3 and 65.8" for the A1 rear / 75.8 for the A2 and A3 rear.

Something seems not right here to me. This must be the width to the center of the front tire, but for the rear - the outer dually tire or the middle between the rear tires?

What I am trying to find, so far without success, is the hub face to hub face distance on the A1 front and rear Dana 60's as well as the front A2/A3 Dana 60 and the Dana 70 used in the rear.

Anyone have these measurements?

 

[deuce_09]

If you were to put dually hubs on the front Dana 60 and swap the 14 bolt in the rear for a Dana 70(preferably Dana 70HD) you could run the h1's without needing spacers and the WMS-WMS will be exactly the same front and back. Idk who makes them but there are dually spacers too that you can use instead of replacing the whole hub. They are a ton cheaper. I know a guy with a pair of them. I could ask if he will ship them if you want them.

 

[skysix]

So all I have to do is find a Dana 70HD, swap in the 4.56 and Detroit Locker, convert to discs (just 'cause) and swap the front hubs for "dually" hubs. Easy-Peasy. But $$ might be a bit much unless someone is parting out a M1028 A2 or A3... Any takers?

 

[deuce_09]

So all I have to do is find a Dana 70HD, swap in the 4.56 and Detroit Locker, convert to discs (just 'cause) and swap the front hubs for "dually" hubs. Easy-Peasy. But $$ might be a bit much unless someone is parting out a M1028 A2 or A3... Any takers?

You might get lucky and find a 70 HD at a junk yard. The "camper special" dually chevy pickups/motor homes have them. You can identify one by measuring the axle tube diameter. If it's four inches, it's a 70HD. if it's three inches, it's a regular 70.

The disk brake conversion on a 70 HD is more complicated to do. You have to buy weld on brackets and use 14 bolt hubs on it. Alot of work.

On the other hand,a regular Dana 70 is super easy to convert to disks. ruffstuffspecialties.com sells bolt on brackets that use chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 calipers,pads,and rotors.go this^ route and it's all bolt on.

If your dead set on disk brakes, go with a regular 70.you'll save money and time and a regular 70 will hold just as much weight as your 14 bolt. The only down side is you won't have an e brake. You can use Cadillac eldarado calipers instead of the chevy 3/4 ton calipers and they have an e brake hookup. you can ask dan at ruff stuff if you can use them with this setup.

If you want the stronger axle, go with the 70HD and stick with the drum brakes. They are alot bigger than the drums on your 14 bolt and will work just fine. Plus you will have an e-brake.you can probably completely rebuild a 70HD and put all new grease and gear lube in it and not spend half of the money you will on a regular 70 with disks and eldarado calipers.

 

[deuce_09]

As far as the front axle goes:

If you want the extra strength,you can buy dually hubs and install them then sell the single wheel hubs for more cash than you'll spend buying the dually hubs.

(this option doesn't really make it weaker..more "less strong" I guess)
You can save money by buying the dually spacers. And the plus side to this is that if you ever decide to go single wheel again, just unbolt the spacer and swap in a 14 bolt.

 

[deuce_09]

OR

You can just buy 4-2" wheel spacers and mount the all the way around then go to ruff stuff specialties and buy the disk brake brackets for your 14 bolt and use elderado calipers(if they will work) and chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 rotors.

 

[skysix]

If you want the stronger axle, go with the 70HD and stick with the drum brakes. They are alot bigger than the drums on your 14 bolt and will work just fine. Plus you will have an e-brake.you can probably completely rebuild a 70HD and put all new grease and gear lube in it and not spend half of the money you will on a regular 70 with disks and eldarado calipers.

What 14-bolt? The axle on there is a 10 bolt, since it started life as a M1031 I am guessing a Dana 60. Maybe I better go look more closely at it / measure the tubes!

 

[deuce_09]

What 14-bolt? The axle on there is a 10 bolt, since it started life as a M1031 I am guessing a Dana 60. Maybe I better go look more closely at it / measure the tubes!

I though we were talkin about a different CUCV! Lol whoops.

Well what axles are in your m1031? Figure that out and I can help from there.

 

[skysix]

Found a D70HD - now I have to take a look at the axel I have on the M1031 'cause it sure looks the same - just narrower. Definitely not a 14 bolt - has 10 bolts. Gonna have to look at the tube diameter and for stampings next time I get back home.... So my next question is, if I have the D60 like I think I do, will the locker be able to be switched over or do I have to go out and not only get a new 4.56 gear set for the D70HD but also a locker for it as well? Or if it is a Dana 70 was that common on the M1031 trucks? Mine definitely had a PTO at one point but when recieved it had a standard box that looked like it was a different vintage than the truck - and no M1028 conversion plate. "battlefield modification" / repurposing?

Lastly - does anyone have any pics of the dually front hub conversion for stock H1 rim use? Search gave me some pics of rigs with 2" front spacer but none with the dually front hubs. Looking for a pic of the hubs mounted on the D60 and without tires on - trying to see if I can use the front dually hubs from the Chev 2wd I got the rear axel from. Looks to me like it won't due to the large diameter of the 4wd hub or will that fit inside the dually disc/hub?

 

[WARWAG]

I was under the impression that the M1031 had a Front Dana 60 with a rear Dana 70. The rear of these trucks do not need disc brakes. Yes Discs are great but not needed in this application. Can you post some pictures of your stock axles? This will clear some things up.

 

[WARWAG]

OK I just checked and the M1031 had from the factory a Dana 60 front axle with a 14 bolt Corporate with detroit locker in the rear. IF you have a 10 bolt axle out back then I suspect someone swapped out axles and installed 10 bolt axles front and back. If so then you will need 1 ton axles. Post some pictures of your axles so we can see what you have.

 

[skysix]

Apparently I need to go back to kindergarten - to learn how to count! My M1031 DOES have a 14 bolt - with a WMS of ~67.5" (the front axle was the one with the 10 bolts as it should be - a Dana 60 with a ~69.5*" WMS)

So if I understand it right, putting dually front hub/spacers from a Chevy Dana 60 out of a K30 will get me a 73.5" or so WMS in the front. The same as adding 2" spacers to either side. Seems a bit off when I look at the hubs - more like a 4 to 5" increase per side than 2" ish. Which would end up at somewhere around 77-79" Two different wreckers quoted me 77.5" and 78.5"... which implies the actual change in hub WMS offset is more like 4-4.5" per side

Is there anyone on the board who can confirm the actual final WMS distance after this mod (dually hubs on the front Dana 60) has been done? Just so I can get the rear WMS set up the same. Kind of hard to order parts when the numbers you get from different sources don't jibe...

Now to the rear. Assuming it is a 4" outward WMS movement in the front, and the rear track is 2" narrower, I need hubs and possibly spacers that will move the WMS out a total of 5.5-5" per side. Will the dually hubs from a 1980's dually14 bolt do 5.5" per side in the rear? If not, what is the final rear WMS after the conversion so I can get some (I am guessing 1/2") steel spacers machined that can be semi-permanently bolted directly to the drums (with longer studs if needed for proper wheel nut purchase)

 

[skysix]

As far as the front axle goes:

If you want the extra strength,you can buy dually hubs and install them then sell the single wheel hubs for more cash than you'll spend buying the dually hubs.

(this option doesn't really make it weaker..more "less strong" I guess)
You can save money by buying the dually spacers. And the plus side to this is that if you ever decide to go single wheel again, just unbolt the spacer and swap in a 14 bolt.

Good to know - so when I finally get up to 100 posts I can place a WTT or WTB ad for swapping 2 each SRW Dana 60 front hubs for 2 Dana 60 DRW front hubs in good condition.....

 

[TCUCV]

I just put on a 4" lift and I am running the 12 bolt hummer wheels and 36" tires(next will be 37's) . . . I have the 2" spacers and if I had to do it again I probably would go with the 1.5".

Here's what 2" spacers look like, and in the second picture, I've changed my rear ubolts. That was a temporary fix.