Where is that great Deuce VIN Database?

[houdel]

OK, same question that has been asked many times before. I have a Kaiser Jeep M35A2, the data plate has a VIN but no model year. Went to the local Secretary of State Office (DMV for Michigan) and asked how I get it registered. They were less than enthusiastic about helping me, said when I apply for a title (a whole lot of paperwork & expense w/o a SF-97) they send the paperwork to the SOS main office in Lansing. Lansing searches some sort of database, if they find a VIN match I get a title with the correct model year and I can get a Historical Vehicle plate for $35 good for 5 years.

If the SOS in Lansing does NOT find a VIN match, I get a title as a "2006 assembled vehicle" and I have to get a commercial plate at about $350 per year! So I emailed the SOS in Lansing with my truck VIN and info and asked if they would check and see if they had a model year for my truck. After about a week I got an unfriendly email reply stating basically "screw you, we can't be bothered spending the 20-30 seconds it would take to look up your VIN", and repeating the "2006 assembled vehicle" threat. Needless to say, I was severely p!ssed off!

So here is my point. The U.S. Army bought all these trucks, they know who they bought them from, and when. They even know they paid $41,822.00 for my truck. Somewhere, the U.S. Army has a record of when my truck was built. So where is this information kept and how do I get to access it? Who do I have to contact in the U.S. Army to find out the model year for my truck? I have the make, VIN and registration number for my truck so finding the model year should be a piece of cake.

Any ideas where to start? Does anyone know of any military database or records custodian that would have that information?

Thanks, Lee

 

[Recovry4x4]

Well, deuce expert in every sense of the word, David Doyle, has scoured the archives for all kinds of things deuce. He has documents from the inception of the style, apg reports and pics and just about anything deuce you could think of, David has been there. As of the last time I spoke with David, he's still to find anything on the archives to determine the year of a deuce other that the totality of the parts and circumstances for each vehicle. David is also the author of the 2nd edition Of the Standard Catalog of Military Vehicles. He has versed me well in deuce 101 and evertime I contact him I learn something new. If these docuents ever rear their ugly head, He will have them and subsequently, so shall you via me!

 

[doghead]

Has anybody contacted A.M.General for this info?

 

[Recovry4x4]

AM G is a waste as far as getting that information. Trust me if it were that easy we would have had it long long ago.

 

[Polverone]

Has anybody contacted A.M.General for this info?

That was the first thing I did when I got my original Deuce - Nothing! Nada, no response. Not even a "we don't have time for this".

-Insert cricket noises here-

Kenny - Speaking of the David Doyle 2nd edition "Standard Catalog of Military Vehicles". Is this a publication that is available?

 

[Recovry4x4]

You bet it is Gary. Most book stores (ie barnes & noble) have it on the shelf. Retails for $32.95. They show up on Ebay from time to time for around $25.

 

[G744]

Manufacturers don't even keep that data for MV's, as they were never sold with that elusive MSO, or "Manufacturers' Statement of Origination" that averything sold on the free market comes with.

Sort of a "birth certificate" for cars & trucks. Except for MV's.

Army trucks don't have them, as it lets them supply things that don't meet spec for across the counter vehicles like EPA, CAFE, DOT, MVSS criteria. The factory doesn't want to talk about it, probably fearing they will have to add that stuff to their lineup and not be able to compete for those pork-barrel projects.

Beat your dead horse, or get creative with supplying your own year. I recommend anything before 1966, so you won't have to smog it and can qualifyn for historic plates and those great exemptions from all kinds of legal folderol.

Make up an official looking document from whatever company made it, get it notarized, and see what happens at DMV.

dg

 

[emmado22]

AMG DOES have the records, but unless you personally know someone who works there, you'll never see them. They dont care, plain and simple. Why spend 30 seconds looking up something on some 30+ year old vehicle for some collector?? It's not like Colt firearms, where you can call them up and they tell you everything down to the minute they made your weapon.

Also, when the Army DRMO's/GL's a vehicle, all the records the army kept on it get purged/deleted.

 

[rice]

If its a Kaiser, From what I can tell, look at the frame serial # The first 2 numbers
01- 1966
02-1967
03-1968
04-1969
05-1970 other than these AM General carried the first 2 numbers over several years, 1976 was 06. 1985 was 09. Hope this helps

 

[houdel]

Thanks, Rick. That is the closest to an answer I've gotton so far. I haven't been able to locate the frame number yet, the truck was rustproofed in '89 and the top of the frame is pretty well gooped over. Guess I'll get out the old putty knife and start scraping.

My data plate VIN is 0539-14943. Should I expect the same number on the frame?

And where should I start looking? Top of the upper frame flange, starting at the steering box and continuing rearward? The inner wheel well lower flange covers much of the frame flange in this area, is it likely the frame VIN will be exposed or might it be hidden under the wheel well flange?

And are you saying Kaiser Jeep only made M35A2s from 1966 to 1970? BTW, what is the manufacturer code for Kaiser Jeep? That is missing from my data plate as well!

Thanks a bunch, Lee

 

[rice]

Vin location

0539-14943 should be the frame number. From all indications that would be a 1970 or early 1971. We've been studying these numbers and Kaiser is consistant with their numbers
It should be in about the center of the frame about 4 or 5 inches in front of the axle on the drivers side.

 

[rice]

Deuce year

Also, the 39 should be a M35A2 with winch, regular bed. Your sequential number would indicate a 1970, I've seen those from 116xx to 185xx so with 14xxx you're about in the middle.

 

[ida34]

Lee, Pick a year within the range for your make and stick to that year. I can tell you right now that SOS Lansing will never find any listing for Kaiser-Jeep much less your vin. The records they are talking about pertain to vehicle made for registered use on the road. Do not go the route of the manufactured vehicle. This is where it is inspected then you are issued a new vin. What you need to try to do is tell them you do not have a title and need a vin inspection. For the vin inspection you will need a copy of your invoice from GL to prove you did not just steal it. If it is older then 25 years and worth less then $2500 then you should not need to post a bond. If you paid more than $2500 then you will need to post a bond for a few years. I am not sure of the exact amounts involved but what I have said is close. The reconstructed title is only applicable if you made this thing from parts. In this case they will want reciepts for all the major components that make up the vehicle and you will not have these since you did not rebuild it. As you might have guessed I do vin inspections so I know a little about it.

Call Lansing and tell them the situation. Do not ask about checking the database because this is a dead end for you. I had a more experienced lady continually tell the clerk to just type it in when I was getting mine registered. Mine was easier since I had an SF-97.

On a side note I am putting a rust free cab on my F-350 and I am going to have to get the reconstructed vin because of the different vin on the new cab. Removing the vin and moving it to the new cab would be a felony. Not something I can do.

 

[houdel]

Thanks all. I'll try to find the VIN on the frame, assuming it matches I'll get out my steel stamps and stamp "70" in the model year block and solve that problem FOREVER!

I'm aware that the "39" indicates w/w, but my truck was rebuilt at Toole in '89, maybe for some reason they took the winch off. The NSN on the data plate ends in 1616, which is correct for a wo/w truck.

Chuck - Once I get the data plate squared away and the rust hole in the bottom of m "J" pipe fixed, I'll need a LEO to do the TR-54 Vehicle Inspection Report. Are you available?

Thanks all again for the help. I'm really glad I finally got the model year problem squared away. Now to find a set of authentic 1970 Michigan license plates on Ebay, send $35 the SOS (DMV to non Michigan residents) for a LIFETIME (never has to be renewed) registration!

Chuck again - can an authentic AA-NNNN or NNNN-AA format plate be used on a truck? Do pickup/truck plates have the "Great Lakes State" logo on them or is the logo just on passenger plates with the AAA-NNN format

 

[ida34]

Lee,
As long as you are getting it registered as a historic vehicle using any 1970 plate should work. The only plate you can not use is a government plate from that year. Pickup or truck plates are kind of a falacy. For years trucks were plated with commercial plates. The truck plates you are talking about are actually just commercial vehicle plates. You will see that some cars carry plates in the commercial format because they are company owned vehicles. The practice of issuing the commercial plates to non commercial trucks has been stopped as of about a year ago. Now if a private person gets a truck they get the regular format passenger car plate. They are now in the format of AAA-NNNN. You must check first to make sure the plate number on your 1970 plate is not already in use by another vehicle. If it is they will deny the use of the older plate. Get with me and we can work something out on the TR-54. How close are you to Ann Arbor?

I almost forgot. Even if you get your own 1970 plates they still need to be renewed every 10 years.

 

[houdel]

Chuck - Just kidding about you filling out the TR-54 for me, once I find the frame VIN I'll get someone from the local SD to do it, they are pretty laid back out here. As for the plate, I'm bidding on a new, unissued matched set on Ebay in the NNNN-AA format but they do not have the "Great Lakes State" logo (I don't want to buy a single plate & find out someone is already using the other plate!). They do NOT have "Trailer" or "Commercial" on them, all the plates I saw in this format the bottom is blank. I saw plenty of 1970 plates with the AAA-NNN format but they all had the "Great Lakes State" logo. Just wondering what the difference is.

As for historical plates, according to the back of the application form, the blue & white "Historical Vehicle" registration is $30 and is valid for 10 years. The authentic year plate registration is $35 and if registered after 1/1/97 "is valid until you sell, transfer, scrap or modify your vehicle". The Historical Plate is available at any SOS office; the authentic plates can only be registered at the SOS main office in Lansing.

 

[Crazyguyla]

another way to zero in on the year of manufacture.. some dueces i looked at sitting around the motorpool have a contract number on the data plate.. some are long.. some are short.. but one thing they all had in common was to numbers in the group seperated by hyphens.. for example: DAxxx-76-xxx with 1976 being the year the contract was awarded. i've seen this mostly on AM General but on some Jeep/ Kaiser vehicles

hope this helps

 

[rice]

vin

another way to zero in on the year of manufacture.. some dueces i looked at sitting around the motorpool have a contract number on the data plate.. some are long.. some are short.. but one thing they all had in common was to numbers in the group seperated by hyphens.. for example: DAxxx-76-xxx with 1976 being the year the contract was awarded. i've seen this mostly on AM General but on some Jeep/ Kaiser vehicles

hope this helps

That is interesting maybe this will help with the AM G`s . It does show that AM G used the first 2 letters of the frame serial number for 2 years or more. My 77 has 75 in that position and my 86 and a friends 85 have 84 in that position.
Maybe we'll be able to tell what year these are after awhile.

 

[ida34]

Lee,
Getting both plates does not automatically mean it will work. You also have to make sure no other year plate is being used with the same numbers. This is the hard part. When you run the plate number on the computer they want just one vehicle to come up. If you were close enough I would have been more than willing to look it over and sign the form. I will have to check in on the plate thing. That would be worth my while if I would not have to register it again. Be sure to post how it goes with registering without an sf-97.

Chuck