Why would you advance the IP?

[79Vette]

I'm replacing the injection pump on my m1009 and after cleaning off all the grease I noticed the timing mark was significantly advanced, about 0.100"

Why would the previous owner have advanced the pump like this? To compensate for a worn timing chain? The truck ran fine but the IP was leaking badly, so I decided to replace it while I was in there for the turbo installation.

Now I'm trying to decide if I should copy the existing timing which worked (.100" advanced), or if I should align the factory mark on the pump...

In the photo you can see the stock timing mark on the engine as well as an additional smaller mark which has been scribed to the side. The mark on the IP is between these two and advanced about 0.100 past the factory mark

 

[Mullaney]

I'm replacing the injection pump on my m1009 and after cleaning off all the grease I noticed the timing mark was significantly advanced, about 0.100"

Why would the previous owner have advanced the pump like this? To compensate for a worn timing chain? The truck ran fine but the IP was leaking badly, so I decided to replace it while I was in there for the turbo installation.

Now I'm trying to decide if I should copy the existing timing which worked (.100" advanced), or if I should align the factory mark on the pump...

In the photo you can see the stock timing mark on the engine as well as an additional smaller mark which has been described to the side. The mark on the IP is between these two and advanced about 0.100 pass the factory mark

.
Wow! You done good...

Having a picture of where it was before could be helpful. I would install it - matching the marks together - and if you need a little adjustment then go for it. I doubt the timing chain has anything to do with the IP advance.

 

[adf5565]

I believe you said your mileage was pretty terrible right? I feel like these motors are forgiving with timing so it still could've been off and caused your mileage to be poor. Personally I'd revert back to the factory marks with the new pump and go from there.

 

[79Vette]

.
Wow! You done good...

Having a picture of where it was before could be helpful. I would install it - matching the marks together - and if you need a little adjustment then go for it. I doubt the timing chain has anything to do with the IP advance.

Sounds good, thanks. I was thinking a stretched chain would retard the cam and IP timing, so maybe someone was trying to bump the IP back to where it should be relative to the crank. Of course the valve timing would still be off in this scenario, but a timing set is more work than bumping the IP timing. I don't know if that would even help, I'm just guessing why it might be like this.

I believe you said your mileage was pretty terrible right? I feel like these motors are forgiving with timing so it still could've been off and caused your mileage to be poor. Personally I'd revert back to the factory marks with the new pump and go from there.

Yep, I'm the guy with the terrible mpg.

I'll set it back at stock and see what happens. Thanks everyone.

I assume it's not possible to change the timing after the intake is back on, so hopefully it works well at that setting. I'm looking forward to having this turbo project behind me...

 

[adf5565]

Sounds good, thanks. I was thinking a stretched chain would retard the cam and IP timing, so maybe someone was trying to bump the IP back to where it should be relative to the crank. Of course the valve timing would still be off in this scenario, but a timing set is more work than bumping the IP timing. I don't know if that would even help, I'm just guessing why it might be like this.




Yep, I'm the guy with the terrible mpg.

I'll set it back at stock and see what happens. Thanks everyone.

I assume it's not possible to change the timing after the intake is back on, so hopefully it works well at that setting. I'm looking forward to having this turbo project behind me...

Actually you can change it with everything together. Especially since you'll have the new gasket in with the new IP. Just loosen the 3 mounting bolts a little and you can rotate it in either direction and then tighten back up.

 

[Mrgior31513]

I can't speak for that motor, but I'm going to advance the timing on my 6BT for performance. On those injection pumps (P7100) when you advance the timing you can get decent to great horsepower gains, depending on what else has been done to the motor. What motor is in that one?

 

[Barrman]

Like anything mass produced. The 6.2 was made to work in all environments and a huge range of conditions. Also like all things mass produced there is a range of acceptable sizes and performance of many different components. As long as each part was within “tolerance”, it was ok to install it.

Those tolerances are different for each engine and each injection pump. Putting your injection pump within 1/16 of an inch either side of the big heavy line on the timing cover will almost certainly cause your engine to start, idle and run down the highway. Tweaking it to run better for your uses will take some trial and error. Especially with a turbo. The turbo takes away a lat of the margin for error as well. Don’t move much beyond the factory line without a good Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge and a good boost gauge.

Here is a video I did about checking the timing and some recommendations I have found and use:

 

[79Vette]

I installed the new pump advanced by the width of the reference line. It was significantly advanced before and ran well, so hopefully this is a good compromise with the new pump. I'm sure I'll have to adjust it, but I'm just looking for a good baseline to get up and running. Photos of the new pump attached

To shift topic slightly, what is the best way to test run the engine and look for fuel leaks? On a naturally aspirated engine I would start it with the intake removed in order to verify that the fittings at the injector pump and injectors are not leaking.

With the turbo do I have to fully assemble everything in order to do a test run? It would be much easier to get at the lines if the engine can be started without the intake... Can the turbo engine be started with the turbo in place and the intake removed if the wastegate is held open? I just want to run the engine at idle to check for leaks, but I don't want to over-speed and damage the turbo

 

[Barrman]

You can still run the engine without the intake manifold. The turbo can just spin by itself with no harm done.

 

[Mrgior31513]

To shift topic slightly, what is the best way to test run the engine and look for fuel leaks? On a naturally aspirated engine I would start it with the intake removed in order to verify that the fittings at the injector pump and injectors are not leaking.

I don't look for any automotive leak anymore without just jumping to UV dye. Coolant, oil, transmission fluid, fuel: You can't get any more noticeable and it takes the guess work out of anything.

Those engines look like a pain.

 

[Sezzo]

I installed the new pump advanced by the width of the reference line. It was significantly advanced before and ran well, so hopefully this is a good compromise with the new pump. I'm sure I'll have to adjust it, but I'm just looking for a good baseline to get up and running. Photos of the new pump attached

To shift topic slightly, what is the best way to test run the engine and look for fuel leaks? On a naturally aspirated engine I would start it with the intake removed in order to verify that the fittings at the injector pump and injectors are not leaking.

With the turbo do I have to fully assemble everything in order to do a test run? It would be much easier to get at the lines if the engine can be started without the intake... Can the turbo engine be started with the turbo in place and the intake removed if the wastegate is held open? I just want to run the engine at idle to check for leaks, but I don't want to over-speed and damage the turbo

May I ask you where you bought the new IP?

 

[79Vette]

May I ask you where you bought the new IP?

I bought it from Badger Diesel on the recommendation of a few members here. He was easy to deal with on the phone (a bit gruff, sort of reminded me of myself haha), and was up front about having a large backlog of parts ahead of me in his queue.

I got the pump delivered about 3 weeks ago after the order date but I think that was unusually long. I can post back once I get it running if you're interested but I'm sure it will be good

 

[Sezzo]

Thanks, sir. A friend of mine needs a new IP for his M1009 so that’s why I am asking. The problem is we are in Germany. We will check Badger Diesel if they ship to Germany. Did you get the new IP without sending in your old one?

 

[79Vette]

Thanks, sir. A friend of mine needs a new IP for his M1009 so that’s why I am asking. The problem is we are in Germany. We will check Badger Diesel if they ship to Germany. Did you get the new IP without sending in your old one?

Yes. There is a $150 core charge which is not refunded if you do not send the old pump in, but if you pay it you do not need to send in the old one.

 

[Sezzo]

Yes. There is a $150 core charge which is not refunded if you do not send the old pump in, but if you pay it you do not need to send in the old one.

Thanks, sir. That helped a lot. Let us know how the new IP works.

 

[79Vette]

I got the engine started up tonight and it seems to run well with the minimal timing advance from my last photo. I ran it for a couple minutes with the intake off and did not notice any leaks, so I installed the intake and turbo plumbing.

I have another mostly unrelated question, but it doesn't seem to warrant a dedicated thread. When you install the 6.5 turbo setup, I assume you want to connect the CDR after the air filter before the turbo. Does anyone make a fitting for this?

I currently just have the air filter attached to the turbo inlet directly to do a test run, and am looking for the easiest and cheapest way to add a fitting to tee in the CDR. I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to do that

 

[adf5565]

I got the engine started up tonight and it seems to run well with the minimal timing advance from my last photo. I ran it for a couple minutes with the intake off and did not notice any leaks, so I installed the intake and turbo plumbing.

I have another mostly unrelated question, but it doesn't seem to warrant a dedicated thread. When you install the 6.5 turbo setup, I assume you want to connect the CDR after the air filter before the turbo. Does anyone make a fitting for this?

I currently just have the air filter attached to the turbo inlet directly to do a test run, and am looking for the easiest and cheapest way to add a fitting to tee in the CDR. I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to do that

That is correct, it'll need to be before the turbo. I have an S&B intake which made connecting the CDR easy, but maybe you could get a short piece of tubing to extend it forward an inch or 2, and then drill a hole in the tubing and add a grommet and adapt from there.

 

[79Vette]

That is correct, it'll need to be before the turbo. I have an S&B intake which made connecting the CDR easy, but maybe you could get a short piece of tubing to extend it forward an inch or 2, and then drill a hole in the tubing and add a grommet and adapt from there.

I was looking at the S&B intake. Not cheap, but very easy and I'm tired of working on this project...

Any chance you could share a picture of how it fits? They don't publish dimensions for the air box, and I have a lot of AC hoses and wiring on that side of the motor

 

[adf5565]

Yeah it is a bit high priced but there don’t seem to be a lot of options out there. I didn’t install the box it came with, just the tube/filter. I may look at trying to fit the filter box in to ideally keep the filter a little cleaner and prevent it from picking up dirty air from below the truck. Being that I drive a lot of dirt roads.

I also added a catch can for the CDR. Not sure it’s worth the money, it catches some but there still can be some oil getting past it. And also put one of these filter gauges in the tube which helps a lot with determining when the filter should be changed.

Wix Filters 24801 WIX Filters Air Filter Service Gauges | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - WIX Filters Air Filter Service Gauges with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Air Filter Service Indicators at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[79Vette]

Yeah it is a bit high priced but there don’t seem to be a lot of options out there. I didn’t install the box it came with, just the tube/filter. I may look at trying to fit the filter box in to ideally keep the filter a little cleaner and prevent it from picking up dirty air from below the truck. Being that I drive a lot of dirt roads.

I also added a catch can for the CDR. Not sure it’s worth the money, it catches some but there still can be some oil getting past it. And also put one of these filter gauges in the tube which helps a lot with determining when the filter should be changed.

Wix Filters 24801 WIX Filters Air Filter Service Gauges | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - WIX Filters Air Filter Service Gauges with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Air Filter Service Indicators at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

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Thanks, that's very helpful.

I see you have the 6.5 turbo CDR instead of the original CUCV one. Do you know if there is a performance difference, or was it just easier to fit the 6.5 version?