Winches; front, back and frame mounted.

[Guruman]

I think I am going to config mine into a bumper mount with closed lid. I’ll have a foers setup with a similar in place dummy cable that I can swab through just to keep the main synthetic line clean. And pull it through when I need rear recovery.

Just an independent thought:
I don’t bow down to the school of thought that everything the military did is sacrosanct and brilliant because they have large budgets. In fact government largesse produces waste and all manner of bonehead inefficiency.
Their primary mission is to wage war, not overland in comforts that an aspiring individual might spec for his convenience.
I often wonder why the hydraulic winch is rated at 11k #… seems a tad under spec to me… meh.

It's worth noting that the military rates winches differently that the commercial market. My Jeep winch is rated 12k, but that means with all of the line unspooled and on the first wrap of the drum where the winch has the most mechanical advantage.

Military winches are rated the opposite, with all of the cable on the drum where it has the least amount of mechanical advantage. So the commercial market rates based on the best-case scenario, whereas the military rates on the worst-case.

The military winches also have 3+ times the cable of a retail unit, I suspect this was to allow for compound pulls. An 11k winch with enough cable to do a triple line pull beats a 20k with only enough to do a single. (Plus it'll have faster no-load line speeds)

I wonder what the 2.5 ton 11k and the 5 ton 18k winches are rated on the first layer?

 

[Gunny 0369]

Ultimately the winches are a crutch/false sence of never being stuck if you have one ! And this is just my opinion but i feel i have failed to operate offroad to have to be to the point of having to get out and hope all the moons are alligned and i have something to that i might hook to try to pull myself out . Now look and see just how long your cable is? now cut that in half which now for most winches(except the military sidemounts) you have maybe 40 ft thats really short and chances are your not going to reach so did you bring a couple of 40.000 lb strength wire rope 100 ft rolls of cable and do you / most folks have a 40k snatch block most dont ! I operate offroad like i have 2 wheel drive and no winch or help so i take the path of least resistance and i dont put my equipment in places im not positive i can get thru or i find away around it and this will save you loads of time/money !

Sense of security is a good point.
I use my Sherpa to pull others out, and trees out of the way...I have not had to *winch self recover yet—-getting a 6x6 with lockers stuck is a bit self inflicted .. ie misjudged the terrain IMO.
I carry plenty of extra length line and snatch blocks. Beware of fake Chinese blocks that are NOT what they advertise.
Also remember that the pull capacity is
Diminished as you spool in your line- which means you need more line than you think you do.
Sherpas have a weight rating, that exceeds 30k
However, if you mount / bolt to horizontal plate and not vertical- the bolts become your weak points.. youll launch that pretty yellow winch like a fighter off a carrier deck.
Gunny

 

[Green Mountain Boys]

I often wonder why the hydraulic winch is rated at 11k #… seems a tad under spec to me… meh.

I have the SRW on my truck and have used it quite a bit. Despite the 11K rating it has pulled everything I have asked of it. I do not have the tools required to measure the actual line pull but it seems to be very underrated. It is easily capable of dragging a M1078 across dry flat pavement with all 4 wheels locked up in a single line pull.
I recently pulled a large tree with the SRW and I thought I could move it with very little friction so it would be an easy pull. I also did not have much cable off the drum so the winch was at a big disadvantage due to a nearly full drum of cable. When I began pulling the tree slid down a side slope and partially got hung up on another tree causing more friction than I had planned. It still pulled it out without any problem. I was very impressed, I do not like to work tools harder than necessary but that time I should have had more cable off the drum and redirected the pull to make it easier.

When you are installing an electric winch make sure to figure the massive amp draw of the winch at full load and remeber the duty cycle. They generate a ton of heat very fast and cool down very slowly.

 

[Gunny 0369]

.
Hmmm....

The military has large deep pockets and a bunch of teens and twenty-somethings.
Steel Rope.
Synthetic Rope.
Wonder why the guys with more money than all of us put together picked steel?
.

“it's way less abrasion/cut resistant.”

 

[Mullaney]

“it's way less abrasion/cut resistant.”

.
Yes Sir!

 

[Gunny 0369]

.
Yes Sir!

i saw someone stated Roller fair Leads can be used with syn rope—-
Uhm, the syn rope will fall into the ends of the rollers, and destroy the rope- not recommended.
I looked at a fix to this, but couldn’t design a horiz roller that came close enough to the vertical roller, that wouldn’t pinch cut that plastic rope under load...

 

[Guruman]

i saw someone stated Roller fair Leads can be used with syn rope—-
Uhm, the syn rope will fall into the ends of the rollers, and destroy the rope- not recommended.
I looked at a fix to this, but couldn’t design a horiz roller that came close enough to the vertical roller, that wouldn’t pinch cut that plastic rope under load...

I think this is a bit of an urban legend. the rollers on most fairleads overlap at the corners. You might be able to snake the flexible synthetic line in there if you tried real hard, but under normal use it's not an issue. If a taught synthetic line could get in there, then a taught steel one could too.



https://factor55.com/uncategorized/can-you-use-a-roller-fairlead-with-synthetic-winch-rope/

Daystar is even making replacement rollers so you don't have to worry about damaged steel rollers destroying your line. I bought a couple of these in case I want to try and retrofit my rollers with these urethane ones, but since I've cleaned up my steel rollers, I might just go ahead and use them.

https://www.amazon.com/Daystar-Polyurethane-Rollers-Fairleads-KU70054BK/dp/B001P20Y1W

 

[Gunny 0369]

I think this is a bit of an urban legend. the rollers on most fairleads overlap at the corners. You might be able to snake the flexible synthetic line in there if you tried real hard, but under normal use it's not an issue. If a taught synthetic line could get in there, then a taught steel one could too.



https://factor55.com/uncategorized/can-you-use-a-roller-fairlead-with-synthetic-winch-rope/

Daystar is even making replacement rollers so you don't have to worry about damaged steel rollers destroying your line. I bought a couple of these in case I want to try and retrofit my rollers with these urethane ones, but since I've cleaned up my steel rollers, I might just go ahead and use them.

https://www.amazon.com/Daystar-Polyurethane-Rollers-Fairleads-KU70054BK/dp/B001P20Y1W

the Brit guy in vid said.. “ I’m sure it’s happened to someone, but it hasn’t happened to me”

it happened to me.
i assume it has a lot to do with the fair Leads manufacture-
Plus that guys winching play toys, not 17 ton trucks.
So much for urban legend.
All in all, personal preference- some of the newer rollers look built well-not like the weak frames steel ones I’ve had.

but, give it a try on a MTV and post that vid!!!

 

[Guruman]

the Brit guy in vid said.. “ I’m sure it’s happened to someone, but it hasn’t happened to me”

it happened to me.
i assume it has a lot to do with the fair Leads manufacture-
Plus that guys winching play toys, not 17 ton trucks.
So much for urban legend.

but, give it a try on a MTV and post that vid!!!

You might be the only one. I can't kick up a single image or video of it happening. What were you doing? Crazy angles? somersaults? Air drop?

 

[Guruman]

While we are talking rollers. I'm looking at something called a roller button or roller chock. It's used in the marine world to redirect towing lines on ships.

I have not been able to find a source or pricing on one just yet, but it looks like a cool idea. Anyone have an "in" in the marine supply world? I'm tuhinking this roller chock might be the ticket to a decent foers setup.

 

[chucky]

Sense of security is a good point.
I use my Sherpa to pull others out, and trees out of the way...I have not had to *winch self recover yet—-getting a 6x6 with lockers stuck is a bit self inflicted .. ie misjudged the terrain IMO.
I carry plenty of extra length line and snatch blocks. Beware of fake Chinese blocks that are NOT what they advertise.
Also remember that the pull capacity is
Diminished as you spool in your line- which means you need more line than you think you do.
Sherpas have a weight rating, that exceeds 30k
However, if you mount / bolt to horizontal plate and not vertical- the bolts become your weak points.. youll launch that pretty yellow winch like a fighter off a carrier deck.
Gunny

Yea most never really study the whole winching deal your only going to get that top poundage line pull till you have all the line off the drum but the last layer so you get all the line out and then see where you can reach with other blocks and lines and chokers to come meet the winch cable and the more blocks the easyier on the winch and more pull ! Someone i cant remember was talking about which side top or bottom of the spool to pull off of and as far as i know most electric winches the wrap comes under so the lowest /closest side to the mounting bolts so you would have to shear them off to lose a winch and as long as you use grade 8 or above mounting bolts you will never shear one of them off with an electric winch .

 

[chucky]

While we are talking rollers. I'm looking at something called a roller button or roller chock. It's used in the marine world to redirect towing lines on ships.

I have not been able to find a source or pricing on one just yet, but it looks like a cool idea. Anyone have an "in" in the marine supply world? I'm tuhinking this roller chock might be the ticket to a decent foers setup.

View attachment 873698
View attachment 873699

You dont need any of that you just need a way to secure /capture the line like a big eyelet for the cable to run thru if you using a sidemount just look at the lm/fmtv winch trucks on here and use what they have to get the cable to the front or rear rollers at each end of the truck

 

[Guruman]

You dont need any of that you just need a way to secure /capture the line like a big eyelet for the cable to run thru if you using a sidemount just look at the lm/fmtv winch trucks on here and use what they have to get the cable to the front or rear rollers at each end of the truck

In my foers setup, that turn around point could see 40k+ of force. I don't think the factory quad roller set is capable of sustaining that load as they were just made to redirect the line a bit on entry/exit.

The smallest roller chock I've found is rated for 20 tons with an 8 inch radius.

I'm thinking one of these mounted to the frame just forward of the factory rear quad roller. It would do the redirection for pulling from the front, and when you want to do a pull from the rear, just grab the loop off the roller chock, and feed it through the factory quad roller, slap on a snatch block and yank away.

When you're done, remove the snatch block and "park" the loop back onto the roller chock.

 

[coachgeo]

I think this is a bit of an urban legend. ....

heavy duty rollerfairlead..... this was more spendy one

https://zips.com/parts-detail/roller-fairlead-assy-274020?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIke_3-9WK-QIVCpyzCh2Btg4MEAQYASABEgIVIfD_BwE

have heard good things about what zip has to offer the commercial market (wreckers 4-xample) where winches are used.

then there is cable tensioners which help prevent bunching of cable on one side.... etc.

https://zips.com/parts-detail/miller-11-cable-tensioner-12-0900830

 

[chucky]

In my foers setup, that turn around point could see 40k+ of force. I don't think the factory quad roller set is capable of sustaining that load as they were just made to redirect the line a bit on entry/exit.

The smallest roller chock I've found is rated for 20 tons with an 8 inch radius.

I'm thinking one of these mounted to the frame just forward of the factory rear quad roller. It would do the redirection for pulling from the front, and when you want to do a pull from the rear, just grab the loop off the roller chock, and feed it through the factory quad roller, slap on a snatch block and yank away.

When you're done, remove the snatch block and "park" the loop back onto the roller chock.

How and where would you mount it ? I think the factory rollers on the lmfm will not let you down and handle just the cable being up against them not wraped around them pulling ! just my opinion

 

[chucky]

not that what I think is of "value" beyond ... offering a "hhhhmmmmm..." something to thing about. This something..... is .... wharrr would one find roller fairleads strong enough for the forces our larger winches will put on them if one decided to go that route?

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[coachgeo]

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apologize I was not fast enough.... while you posted this I was editing the post you quoted me on lol

 

[Guruman]

How and where would you mount it ? I think the factory rollers on the lmfm will not let you down and handle just the cable being up against them not wraped around them pulling ! just my opinion

The roller chock could be mounted anywhere along the frame between the rear rollers and the winch itself, although I think further back will help with the cable angles feeding off the drum. I'm thinking somewhere in the vicinity of the mud flap arm mount, but to be fair, I'm not looking at the truck right now, so "somewhere" it might fit...?

I agree, the factory rollers are beefy enough to do the job they were intended to do, I'm just looking to complicate things by feeding from the drum around a hefty pulley in the rear and all the way back out the front. That way I never need to re-route the line front/rear in hip deep mud and I end up with easy single line pulling from the front and easy double line pulling from the rear.

 

[Guruman]

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I think the one in the first image weighs in at 245 KG!...

Beef.

 

[Ronmar]

In my foers setup, that turn around point could see 40k+ of force. I don't think the factory quad roller set is capable of sustaining that load as they were just made to redirect the line a bit on entry/exit.

Yep, the turnaround structure and how it interfaces with the frame needs to be considered very carefully as that point will see the greatest force. The rear roller feed and support structure on the LMTV will not support this without some more support structure added.