tim292stro
Well-known member
- 2,118
- 39
- 48
- Location
- S.F. Bay Area/California
Make sure you bar over the engine completely to check the flywheel/flex-plate teeth. Have you looked at how far the starter pinion gear is engaging the flywheel?
-
Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
IL - M1009 Will Not Start
- Thread starter 48cj2a
- Start date
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
After I get the cover off, I'll mark the flywheel and inspect it thouroughly for cracks and all teeth.
Just so I know he has the right starter too, should it have a particular number of teeth on the bendix?
Just so I know he has the right starter too, should it have a particular number of teeth on the bendix?
cucvrus
Well-known member
- 11,294
- 9,691
- 113
- Location
- Jonestown Pennsylvania
What sucks is he was going to stop over tonight about 15 mins before the starter issues so i could go over what I found and fixed and then talk about new 60Gs and a filter conversion. His plan is to take this to his vacation home in Colorado but wants to ensure its reliable starting and running before the trip out. I let him know this afternoon that it was making trhe noise and a little hesitate on starter engagement.
With all these issues and conversions. I would play it safe and towbar it or trailer it to Colorado. After a while you just have to say is it really worth the effort? Some of the CUCV's I see are so hacked up and messed with I have to ask. Why? Who does this kind of work and why? I always said. Do or do not. There is no try. And if it ain't broke don't fix it. And if you can't fix it right don't fix it at all. Nowadays people just do what ever someone on the internet tells them to do. They never saw the vehicle they were driving and saw how hacked up their vehicles are. Many people have $100. remedies to fix a $20. problem. And then they change so many things witch hunting the original problem they end up with multiple problems and no way to solve them but with guess work. get the point. Keep it simple it lasted how many years before you decided to mess with it and change it? Do as you wish. In my camp we keep it simple. Replace what is broken or not working and drive on hard. Have a great day. Season Greetings.
With all these issues and conversions. I would play it safe and towbar it or trailer it to Colorado. After a while you just have to say is it really worth the effort? Some of the CUCV's I see are so hacked up and messed with I have to ask. Why? Who does this kind of work and why? I always said. Do or do not. There is no try. And if it ain't broke don't fix it. And if you can't fix it right don't fix it at all. Nowadays people just do what ever someone on the internet tells them to do. They never saw the vehicle they were driving and saw how hacked up their vehicles are. Many people have $100. remedies to fix a $20. problem. And then they change so many things witch hunting the original problem they end up with multiple problems and no way to solve them but with guess work. get the point. Keep it simple it lasted how many years before you decided to mess with it and change it? Do as you wish. In my camp we keep it simple. Replace what is broken or not working and drive on hard. Have a great day. Season Greetings.
tim292stro
Well-known member
- 2,118
- 39
- 48
- Location
- S.F. Bay Area/California
The most important part is "none missing/broken"
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
exactly!
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
Teeth are definetley chipped and has been rubbing on the flywheel cover. I pulled a shim out of the starter mounting becasue it looked like the bendix what not moving far enough in.
Still need to have some one bump it for more inspection but it is turning over again. Pictures are after shim removal and the two bolts were there and tight.
Still need to have some one bump it for more inspection but it is turning over again. Pictures are after shim removal and the two bolts were there and tight.
cucvrus
Well-known member
- 11,294
- 9,691
- 113
- Location
- Jonestown Pennsylvania
That flex-plate is wasted. You will need to replace that. Or you can run it and hope for the best. It will go for a while. But it could get to the point where it will not engage at all. I seen a guy turn his engine over a bit with a 15/16" socket to get away from the gnarled teeth on the ring gear. Do as you want. You can change it without removing the transmission. Happy Holidays
tim292stro
Well-known member
- 2,118
- 39
- 48
- Location
- S.F. Bay Area/California
I do have to agree with cucvrus - the ends of those teeth are pretty well rounded off. Even if you fixed the engagement now, the teeth are missing the surface that got rounded off already so you're not engaging enough gear for long term reliability.
If you don't have a "soldier b", you can disconnect the batteries and use a dental pick to pull out the bendix - it's the same effect as the starter solenoid activating. It'll stop when it hits the motor contacts which would normally start the motor spinning, but with the batteries disconnected it won't have power to spin. Bold added for safety emphasis. You want to see better than 50% engagement when the bendix is out at the stops - it almost looks like the starter spent a bit of time skipping along the flywheel gear teeth... Can't be a chicken with the ignition switch either, I've seen that kind of failure when the driver short-crank-pulses expecting the engine to start immediately - gotta commit, and it doesn't hurt anything to leave the key turned to start a half a second after you hear the engine starting to fire on its own.
BTW the shim is to set the clearance of the peaks of the pinion teeth to the trough of the flywheel teeth (and vise versa):
If you don't have a "soldier b", you can disconnect the batteries and use a dental pick to pull out the bendix - it's the same effect as the starter solenoid activating. It'll stop when it hits the motor contacts which would normally start the motor spinning, but with the batteries disconnected it won't have power to spin. Bold added for safety emphasis. You want to see better than 50% engagement when the bendix is out at the stops - it almost looks like the starter spent a bit of time skipping along the flywheel gear teeth... Can't be a chicken with the ignition switch either, I've seen that kind of failure when the driver short-crank-pulses expecting the engine to start immediately - gotta commit, and it doesn't hurt anything to leave the key turned to start a half a second after you hear the engine starting to fire on its own.
BTW the shim is to set the clearance of the peaks of the pinion teeth to the trough of the flywheel teeth (and vise versa):
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
Any known fit problems with the aftermarket starters...this is not a Delco and it had cad plated square socket hole hardware where the normal recessed Phillips screws go?
Similar to this thing:
He did stop by last night and I have him convinced on the Fuel Filter and 60G upgrades.
Similar to this thing:
He did stop by last night and I have him convinced on the Fuel Filter and 60G upgrades.
Last edited:
tim292stro
Well-known member
- 2,118
- 39
- 48
- Location
- S.F. Bay Area/California
A mechanic friend of mine told me once, and it stuck: "you can always be the first to see an aftermarket part problem, you always have to check for proper fit when you put things together". It's one of the reasons he's a bit more expensive on the labor he charges his customers, but knowing that he does actually intentionally pay attention to what he's doing makes that extra money worth it in time NOT spent on the side of the road.
I think some guys have seen lift pumps with the wrong lever designs, and other issues on aftermarket parts.
Can you take a picture of what you're talking about when you have a chance? You may be the first one to see a problem with this particular vendor/model...
I think some guys have seen lift pumps with the wrong lever designs, and other issues on aftermarket parts.
Can you take a picture of what you're talking about when you have a chance? You may be the first one to see a problem with this particular vendor/model...
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
I edited and posted a pic in the previous post but if I'm going to pull the battery cables to play with the bendix I will go a step further and completely unbolt it and get a couple pics and look for a label too.
He purchased it from a local ALT and Starter Rebuild shop which might be worth checking to see if they still have his original and it can be rebuilt if needed.
He purchased it from a local ALT and Starter Rebuild shop which might be worth checking to see if they still have his original and it can be rebuilt if needed.
cucvrus
Well-known member
- 11,294
- 9,691
- 113
- Location
- Jonestown Pennsylvania
Over the years I have run every type of starter I found and bought. I have had no problems. It everything is aligned, adjusted, and good strong batteries you will be in good shape. It is a toss up to how long it lasts. How many times did you over heat the starter cranking it when out of fuel or with bad glow plugs or low voltage. These all take the toll on parts and then tip the scale towards the part being not as good as original. Unless you owned the CUC/V from new you are going to have a real problem making that statement. I have had a few that had very low mileage and the parts lasted long and never needed anything. Then I had a few original low mileage ones that the parts failed early on. Same goes I had high mileage ones last a long time. Were they original parts or replacements. it gets hard to tell. If the part fits use it. If you have other issues that are putting undue stress and wear on the new part. It is not fair to blame the part no matter which country it was built in. That is my opinion on it. happy Holidays and good luck with your projects.
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
Just getting back to this CUCV after being gone TDY all last week...
As I mentioned, I had stopped at the Barber Shop after work on the first test drive day into work. When I went to leave it the starter was engaging but would not engage the flywheel do to chipped and wore down teeth. So replacing the flexplate flywheel was in order.
For anyone comptemplating a flywheel change, this was much easier that I thought it would be and I did not have to completely remove the the THM400/NP208.
Disconnect the battery cables
Remove the flywheel inspection cover and torque converter bolts
Remove the 6 bell housing bolts (and I slightly bent the starter shield bolt tab to clear the trans)
Reinstall 2 or 4 new bolts that are approximately 4" long in the lower holes to support the bell housing (I used 2)
I jacked the engine up and placed a large jack stand under the pan to support the engine and less the bind and realignment upon engine/bell housing split
remove the differential ends of both drive shafts and tape the caps so they don't fall off
disconnect the linkage by removing the clip and pull it out of transmission end
disconnect the two cooler lines from the transmission
I put small jack stands on a little 4 wheel cart I made with a bottle jack in the center on dunage and jacked up the crossmember enough to support it while I removed the 4 crossmember bolts and lowered it to the jackstands
then using a large prybar I split the bell housing from the engine enough to gain access to the flexplate/flywheel bolts. Because it was on the cart it just rolled back on its own.
Use a long prybar to lock the flywheel enough to break the torque of the mounting bolts or a flywheel tool which I tryed using too, but this one was a borrowed and well used POS from HF
After I figured out it had a bent tab and bent it back with a hammer it worked good upon tightening the bolts on the new flexplate.
If you are unfamiliar with the tool here is what they look like:
I did not like the looks of the starter alignment so I put the start shim back in and I'm unable to pull the bendix with a pick to check it. so I'll pull the starter today and see if I can move once its out. I did notice the front support bracket was cut off so it was probably done by whomever installed the starter to gain access for clearence rather than just removing it so I'll have to figure out some way to support the front end too.
I also ordered a WIX 24770 filter base and using the posted pdf of compatible filters I also ordered a WIX 33426 filter. The thread is correct but it is not the correct diameter to seal with the mount. When I get to installing this and get a correct filter I'll do this in a seperate post.
As I mentioned, I had stopped at the Barber Shop after work on the first test drive day into work. When I went to leave it the starter was engaging but would not engage the flywheel do to chipped and wore down teeth. So replacing the flexplate flywheel was in order.
For anyone comptemplating a flywheel change, this was much easier that I thought it would be and I did not have to completely remove the the THM400/NP208.
Disconnect the battery cables
Remove the flywheel inspection cover and torque converter bolts
Remove the 6 bell housing bolts (and I slightly bent the starter shield bolt tab to clear the trans)
Reinstall 2 or 4 new bolts that are approximately 4" long in the lower holes to support the bell housing (I used 2)
I jacked the engine up and placed a large jack stand under the pan to support the engine and less the bind and realignment upon engine/bell housing split
remove the differential ends of both drive shafts and tape the caps so they don't fall off
disconnect the linkage by removing the clip and pull it out of transmission end
disconnect the two cooler lines from the transmission
I put small jack stands on a little 4 wheel cart I made with a bottle jack in the center on dunage and jacked up the crossmember enough to support it while I removed the 4 crossmember bolts and lowered it to the jackstands
then using a large prybar I split the bell housing from the engine enough to gain access to the flexplate/flywheel bolts. Because it was on the cart it just rolled back on its own.
Use a long prybar to lock the flywheel enough to break the torque of the mounting bolts or a flywheel tool which I tryed using too, but this one was a borrowed and well used POS from HF
After I figured out it had a bent tab and bent it back with a hammer it worked good upon tightening the bolts on the new flexplate.
If you are unfamiliar with the tool here is what they look like:
I did not like the looks of the starter alignment so I put the start shim back in and I'm unable to pull the bendix with a pick to check it. so I'll pull the starter today and see if I can move once its out. I did notice the front support bracket was cut off so it was probably done by whomever installed the starter to gain access for clearence rather than just removing it so I'll have to figure out some way to support the front end too.
I also ordered a WIX 24770 filter base and using the posted pdf of compatible filters I also ordered a WIX 33426 filter. The thread is correct but it is not the correct diameter to seal with the mount. When I get to installing this and get a correct filter I'll do this in a seperate post.
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
I got back to the CUCV today, first pulling the starter...
Someone had cut the bracket which would have been the correct one for the gear reduction starter too and I didn't want to spend any money on this or wait if I had to order one so I set out to make one.
Took me a while but I found this image on the innerweb and used it as a guide. The bolt holes are 2 1/4" center to center and the part that mounts to the engine is slotted so I drilled two holes slightly apart and used a round file to join them in making the slot.
After getting the starter mounted back up, I swapped all the glow plugs out for the 60G and replaced all of the crimped terminals.
Lastly I was worked on the spin on fuel filter mod. Wile I was TDY last week I ordered a WIX 24770 mount from Amazon and using the Filter Comparison Chart PDF in post: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...uel-filter-mod&p=652184&viewfull=1#post652184. I wanted a shorter filter with low micron count and the water separator valve so using this chart I had selected a WIX 33426. The filter seal diameter is too large and does not seal against the WIX adapter. Upon further scanning of the Filter Comparison Chart there are many filters on this list that are not even close to correct for use with the the 24770 adapter. The list should really be removed as I have read threads from others tonight with simular complaints.
I'll do some more research and report a solution besides the 33005 which is 7" long.
Someone had cut the bracket which would have been the correct one for the gear reduction starter too and I didn't want to spend any money on this or wait if I had to order one so I set out to make one.
Took me a while but I found this image on the innerweb and used it as a guide. The bolt holes are 2 1/4" center to center and the part that mounts to the engine is slotted so I drilled two holes slightly apart and used a round file to join them in making the slot.
After getting the starter mounted back up, I swapped all the glow plugs out for the 60G and replaced all of the crimped terminals.
Lastly I was worked on the spin on fuel filter mod. Wile I was TDY last week I ordered a WIX 24770 mount from Amazon and using the Filter Comparison Chart PDF in post: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...uel-filter-mod&p=652184&viewfull=1#post652184. I wanted a shorter filter with low micron count and the water separator valve so using this chart I had selected a WIX 33426. The filter seal diameter is too large and does not seal against the WIX adapter. Upon further scanning of the Filter Comparison Chart there are many filters on this list that are not even close to correct for use with the the 24770 adapter. The list should really be removed as I have read threads from others tonight with simular complaints.
I'll do some more research and report a solution besides the 33005 which is 7" long.
joshuak
Active member
- 747
- 214
- 43
- Location
- Slower shore, DE
At the bottom of the Filter Comparison.pdf the OP started an important column, labeled gasket ID, but didn't finish it. Gaskets with an ID in the 60 mm range work for my 4770 base. Here are a couple options from that list that will fit, have water separator and relatively low micron rating, unfortunately all are tall.
| WIX | NAPA | Thread | Micron | Water Sep. | Filter height | Filter OD | Filter Base | Gasket ID | Gasket OD |
| 33005 | 3005 | 1 1/14 | 3 | Y | 7.389 | 3.69 | 24770/4770 | 62 | 71 |
| 33405 | 3405 | 1 1/14 | 12 | Y | 7.219 | 3.698 | 24770/4770 | 61 | 69 |
| 33406 | 3406 | 1 1/14 | 5 | Y | 9.805 | 3.677 | 24770/4770 | 62 | 72 |
| 33407 | 3407 | 1 1/14 | 5 | Y | 7.98 | 3.68 | 24770/4770 | 62 | 72 |
| 33422 | 3422 | 1 1/14 | 2 | Y | 9.378 | 3.657 | 24770/4770 | 61 | 72 |
| 33522 | 3522 | 1 1/14 | 10 | Y | 7.45 | 3.775 | 24770/4770 | 62 | 72 |
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
Mounted the WIX 24770 adapter
Picked up three - 1/2" to 3/8" bushings
brass 3/8" to 3/8" barb
brass 3/8" to 1/4" barb
1" long 3/8" nipple
3/8" 90
3/8" to 1/4" bushing
1/4" petcock
roll of fuel safe teflon tape
Had more than enough room to get my hand in behind the intake with a 1/4" ratchet and 1/4" socket to remove the original fuel line and replace it on the IP.
Had trouble finding a low micron filter to picked up a Fram 3712 for now.
Filled it with fuel and will bleed it tomorrow.
If I was to do this again I would do nipples and 90s or maybe even 45s on the hose input and output connections...
Picked up three - 1/2" to 3/8" bushings
brass 3/8" to 3/8" barb
brass 3/8" to 1/4" barb
1" long 3/8" nipple
3/8" 90
3/8" to 1/4" bushing
1/4" petcock
roll of fuel safe teflon tape
Had more than enough room to get my hand in behind the intake with a 1/4" ratchet and 1/4" socket to remove the original fuel line and replace it on the IP.
Had trouble finding a low micron filter to picked up a Fram 3712 for now.
Filled it with fuel and will bleed it tomorrow.
If I was to do this again I would do nipples and 90s or maybe even 45s on the hose input and output connections...
Last edited:
cucvrus
Well-known member
- 11,294
- 9,691
- 113
- Location
- Jonestown Pennsylvania
Hey if this truck runs and starts now. The title should be I finally got the M1009 started. 
Were all these changes needed just to get the truck to start? Does it run and drive now?
Were all these changes needed just to get the truck to start? Does it run and drive now?
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
You must have missed my change to Post#1's Title: IL - M1009 Will Not Start - Fixed!, although I'm still have inconsistant starter issues with engaging, bendix sticking and it just not sounding correct. I'll try the shim back in it tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
Took quite a while but finally got the air bled again with the new fuel filter system.
Starter is definetley not right so going to test drive shortly and get it up on ramps to reshim.
While I waited for the batteries to charge I pulled the dash bezel again to get to the 24 volt meter which is inop. 10v on the gauge with key on. Took the meter out to ohm test and see the resistor is gone. The meter shows open between the terminals so I'm assuming its toast.
Getting 20v out of passenger alt and 14. v out of driver side.
Starter is definetley not right so going to test drive shortly and get it up on ramps to reshim.
While I waited for the batteries to charge I pulled the dash bezel again to get to the 24 volt meter which is inop. 10v on the gauge with key on. Took the meter out to ohm test and see the resistor is gone. The meter shows open between the terminals so I'm assuming its toast.
Getting 20v out of passenger alt and 14. v out of driver side.
48cj2a
Active member
- 311
- 34
- 28
- Location
- Central, IL
Put the shim back in the starter sounds slighly better but I don't think I would recommend this replacment starter to anyone when known good ones are out there.
Did not see any tags or labels on it but looks alont like the ones on eBay.
Owner wants me to drive it for a week and make sure it is reliable before giving it back to him.
Now to figure out my time and be fair for both of us.
Did not see any tags or labels on it but looks alont like the ones on eBay.
Owner wants me to drive it for a week and make sure it is reliable before giving it back to him.
Now to figure out my time and be fair for both of us.