Replacement winch cable

[m16ty]

I personally wouldn't have a problem using used wire rope as long as it didn't have any noticable problems.

In the business I'm in I've broken my fair share of cable on winch trucks. While it is dangerous when a cable breaks, nobody should be in harms way anyway. When we replace the cable on our cranes we save it for use on winches.

 

[wldrbob]

for sure we always had loggers lined up waiting for cable whenever we changed drill rig cable you always use your cable like it was going to break thats the safest way stay alert and out of the way and i dont know about you guys but id rather be carefull than spend 2 bucks a foot just because my cable got a flat spot .i use my winch couple hundred times a year and yes i just use a grade 2 bolt been years since i broke one it was mostely worn out though everythings getting a bit loose old age catches all of us

 

[jesusgatos]

...always use your cable like it was going to break...

Always good advice.

 

[mudguppy]

x2

i really don't understand why everyone is touting "is your life worth it to use a inferior or used wire rope?"

hey, hotshot(s) - what the crap are you doing near the cable while it's under tension, anyway? a new, good quality cable doesn't give you reason to be near it while under tension.


if you need to be near it for whatever, pay it back out: the moment you trust it you're dead. i'd say that's what i was taught at H8 school, but common sense should have taught you that way before.

 

[rmgill]

I will point out that Ron is a crane operator for a living. He does have a good idea when it comes to lifting/winching hazards and equipment failure.

What he's saying is that abused lifting/towing equipment can fail in a random way that you may not expect if it's badly abused.

 

[doghead]

x2

i really don't understand why everyone is touting "is your life worth it to use a inferior or used wire rope?"

hey, hotshot(s) - what the crap are you doing near the cable while it's under tension, anyway? a new, good quality cable doesn't give you reason to be near it while under tension.


if you need to be near it for whatever, pay it back out: the moment you trust it you're dead. i'd say that's what i was taught at H8 school, but common sense should have taught you that way before.

It sounds to me like, you have NEVER used your deuce winch. If you didn't notice, the cable is just about 2 feet to the right of being in line with your head, as you sit in the cab. After you see one person killed with a cable snapping back into the windshield, maybe you will learn to fear dangers like this.

hey, hotshot(s) - what the crap are you doing

Drop the 'tude!


And once again, I will suggest that if you are using a truck that originally cost thousands of dollars to purchase and maintain. Nickle and dimeing used components, that may make a HUGE safety difference, is not worth a few hundred bucks. Just Price the new correct parts, before makeing an uneducated decision, based on final cost. PLEASE.

 

[mudguppy]

... maybe you will learn to fear dangers like this. ...

this is what you got from my post? wow.

... Drop the 'tude! ....

No problem. I appologize if you feel that I have directly offended you; the loose quotation in my post was in response to multiple postings in this thread by different folks and is never intended any more than a 'shoe-fits' kinda thing.

The point is this: if the advice as mentioned before of 'assuming the cable will break every time you use it' is followed, then the inference is that one would take proper precautions everytime. And if precautions are taken appropriately, it doesn't matter what cable is used - because you and I both know that a good quality cable can break at any time just like a poor quality one can because of undetected defects or other variables which is compounded when using a PTO driven winch.

So, sitting in the driver's seat and the cable breaks; are you saying that you are not at risk of the cable recoil re-spooling onto your face with a good quality cable versus a poor one? Because by that logic, it's never safe to operate the winch and people should always be 'afraid' to do so.

The fact is there is never 'zero' risk - 'zero' risk is an illusion. However, people should not "fear" risky operations and I would never advise anyone to 'fear' something, because fear makes people do stoopid things and is more likely to lead to an undesired consequence. Rather, a calm understanding of the operation and what can happen, respect for potential outcomes and consequences, and the decision to take necessary steps to control and mitigate these risks in the event of an incident are the defining points between a successful opertion and one that is not.


I 100% agree with the point that you shouldn't use inferior products/parts just to save a buck - I never said anything to refute this. The cable that was posted as an example - I'd never buy it because there is no posted capacities and that vendor has a history of buying inferior imported junk.

I just don't think that the inherent risk to any winching operations should be down-played just because you have the 'correct wire' - it's dangerous as hel even with the correct wire and I believe that the comments made could lead someone to assume [the illusion of] safety just because of a certain part spec when there are so many other factors and practices that affect when an incident occurs and what the outcome will be.

Personally, I wouldn't use a junkyard cable, old and discarded one, one not designed for what I intend to use it for, or one that didn't have proper and comparable specifications and ratings by a reputable manufacturer or source. But if I can find something that fits my requirements and my interpretation of what is acceptable usage for the piece/part, I sure would like to save some cost so that I can buy a spare or replacement in the future - because nothing lasts forever.

 

[jdr2710]

more synthetic thoughts

I wanted to share my thoughts/experience with synthetic winch rope.

Additional cons:
low abrasion resistance (i.e. dragging logs)
heat sensitive (most electric winches use a brake to prevent out-feed, which heats the drum. So when you power out you are working against the brake, heating the drum, bad news for lowering things slowly. I don't know if the deuce winch does the same brake for out feed action.)

Additional pros:
As mentioned previously synthetic rope stores less energy in stretching than wire rope. Picture this: You go to pull some poor stuck bugger out of the mud, so you just hand him the end of the cable and say "hook it up good" but he chooses poorly and the bit he hooks to comes off during the pull. And there you stand right in line with that cable, with that 1 pound piece of steel headed at you at a brazillion mph (been there, luckily didn't get hit by the flying debris)

I really like the synthetic that I've been running on my off-road toys (ATV & HMMWV) for a few years, no more bits of flesh lost to the stray wires, and super light weight.

Another thing to think about is going with a shorter rope on the winch, then get a separate winch extension to make up the length. This makes it so you don't have to spool out a ton of rope to get down to the drum where you have max power, and less rope to re-wind onto the drum when you're done. Then with the synthetic it is easy to carry a couple 100' pieces in the tool box to make up whatever length you want.

Here is the place that had the best prices when I was shopping (no affiliation):

Rockstomper.com

I called them to get exactly what I wanted. They'll cut to length and put thimbles on both ends (for the extension rope).

Jeff

 

[doghead]

Hmm, Mudguppy.

I am thinking we were both misunderstanding what we were saying. Your last post(#47) seems to sum up what I was trying to say earlier. (sorry for the misunderstanding).

I think were on the save wavelength now!

 

[tm america]

anytime you are winching with a deuce you should have the hood open and a blanket acroos the cable to slow it down if it did break i have snapped several cables no damage to humans or equiptment this is where the safety factor comes in.if done correctly even a crappy cable will not hurt you or your truck .you need to keep a radius as big as the cable is long clear of people use a weight in center of cable and keep that hood open and you are good to go oh ya i duck when using questionable cable to

 

[mudguppy]

... Additional cons:
... heat sensitive (... I don't know if the deuce winch does the same brake for out feed action.) ...

the deuce has a small band brake that 'supposedly' holds the load and powering out would go against this brake, just as an electric winch would heat up.

i thought about heat tolerance (or lack, thereof) as a con to list, but wasn't sure if the heat build-up on the deuce winch would or could compare and be a factor. i didn't think it would be a factor, but, you're right - it probably should be on the list of con's for sake of full-disclosure.

also, someone else (i forget) mentioned that the syn rope floats - i've read about certain brands that do indeed float but other brands don't mention that. so i think 'floats' may be a conditional pro.

i like the idea of syn rope on paper, but it seems like it takes so much extra effort and precaution to keep it in good shape that wire rope seems like a more durable / forgiving option. but, i've never owned syn rope, so...

maybe the ideal scenario is to have both: wire on the drum and extra length of syn rope available if needed (as jdr' mentioned). it'd be easier to stow and care for the syn rope easier if it wasn't on the drum.

 

[cjcottrill]

Checked at Fastenall today, none of the choices had a load factor above 4600lbs. so thats a no go. The sales rep said he would make some calls to see what else they might be able to order. Also made a contact with a local logging supplier, he'll get back to me tomorrow.

 

[m16ty]

Checked at Fastenall today, none of the choices had a load factor above 4600lbs. so thats a no go. The sales rep said he would make some calls to see what else they might be able to order. Also made a contact with a local logging supplier, he'll get back to me tomorrow.

Most wire rope has ratings that are for overhead lifting. I'm a crane operator also and I am in the rigging and machinery moving business. I've never seen a 1/2" wire rope that had a WLL of 10,000lbs. All I've seen ( and I've searched high and low for the highest strength rope I can find) has a WLL of around 4,000 to 5,000lbs.

While it is dangerous when a winch line breaks it doesn't compare to the dangers of a line breaking when lifting a load of several thousand pounds. That's why you can get closer to the breaking strength with a winch.

Just remember (whatever kind of rope you use) that winching is more than likely the most dangerous thing we will ever do with our trucks.

 

[tm america]

does anyone know if the tms list the specs for the stock deuce winch cable or just list a part number for it.it would be nice if it did so you could compare apples to apples when looking for a new cable it seems most 4wheelers are going to synthetic cable but i havent seen any listed that would be long enough to replace the stock deuce cable .if they are stronger like they are listed wouldnt they be able to use longer lenths safelyinstead of being stuck at 150ft for a max

 

[rmgill]

Most wire rope has ratings that are for overhead lifting.

Safety factors for overhead lifting are more stringent than they are for winching.

I'm a crane operator also and I am in the rigging and machinery moving business. I've never seen a 1/2" wire rope that had a WLL of 10,000lbs. All I've seen ( and I've searched high and low for the highest strength rope I can find) has a WLL of around 4,000 to 5,000lbs.

The 1/2" rope I found online had a min breaking force of 13-14 tons. That's 26-28,000 lbs.

 

[tm america]

you have to make sure you are comparing the same thing when looking at ratings breaking minimum breaking strength is way different from safe working load and different from safe lifting load.

 

[doghead]

As Emmado22 said in post #2 and I said in post #18, the winch cable specs have been discussed and posted before. With some searching, you should find it(maybe try"improved plow steel". I believe it was Emmado22 that posted the info before, after alot of research.

 

[cjcottrill]

I guess I'm ready to let it drop, Improved Plow Steel is not the strongest wire rope available-6x19 is not the best for bending radius. As a matter of fact some wire ropes are stronger, more flexible, ( translate safer) and cheaper than many 6x19 suppliers offer. I did "look it up" but the TM is not the most updated literature available. Market research is viable, other options are out there both wire and synthetic, some are better some are not. I don't intend to put myself or anyone else at risk, I was just looking for information, not to induce dissention in the ranks.

 

[doghead]

Well, please tell us what you found that is "better". We might want to use it too! Details, please!

 

[cjcottrill]

Well, EIPS 6x37 appears to be one option, not bad for cost - several markets, still 1/2", still fiber core, better bending radius, little stronger, lower twisting problems-usually easier lay. Still others- some stronger, some much more expensive. I'm still looking around and have read a lot of manufacturers data sheets-tons of info out there.