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Thread: Problems running WVO on the multifuel engine

  1. #31
    Colonel Beyond Biodiesel's Avatar
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    Next I have a series of photos here of the inside of my M756A2 fuel tank. The fuel tank is zinc coated, which is good in the case of vegetable oil-petroleum-based fuel blends, because zinc is electrolytically active in chemistry. It is common in chemistry to use zinc as an aid in forcing dissolved solids out of solution.

    In the case of vegetable oil-petroleum-based fuel blends, the zinc coating attracts gum and high melting point triglycerides out of solution, and it holds on to them, which makes it useful as a kind of filter, as well as a water-proof coating for the tank.

    I have also noticed that when the ambient high temperature drops below 75F, and 50F respectively, high melting point triglycerides will precipitate out of solution and cling to the walls of the tank. Then when the ambient high temperature rises about 25F over the precipitation point, then the high melting point triglyceride will return to solution, and be burned as fuel.

    Another good thing about gum accumulating on the surface of a zinc coated fuel tank, is gum is nearly impervious to almost all solvents, especially water, which commonly corrodes zinc coated steel. So, there is at least one other significant advantage to running a deuce on vegetable oil-based fuels.

    https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...0&d=1521477572
    Above is the bottom of the fuel screen. You can see in this image that the screen is coated with gum. By the way, I noticed that my fuel screen is made of copper, and soldered on. Copper is also electrolytically active in chemistry; however, I tried using it to extract fat, and it does not do so, but it might work for just extracting gum.

    https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...1&d=1521477572
    Above is the drain plug from my fuel tank. As you can see the inside surface of the plug is coated with gum.

    https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...2&d=1521477572
    The above photo is of the side of the fuel filler screen. The white crust is most probably very high melting point triglycerides, probably in the 200F range; because the triglycerides with melting points of 165F and below tend to be gummy at ambient temperatures. You can also see gum in this image. It turns out that gum is yellow to amber, and rust-red; whereas, triglycerides are clear to white.

    https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...3&d=1521477572
    This image above is the inside top of the fuel filler screen. You can see that there is quite a crust of gum around it.

    https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...4&d=1521477572
    This is the bottom of my deuce fuel tank. This coating is after draining, and flushing the tank out with ULSD diesel fuel.

    When I flushed my fuel tank I collected 2qts (liters) of dirt. The dirt was a combination of gravel, sand, silt and clay. It is possible that someone dumped the dirt in, but since this deuce was in military service for about 5 years, before being sold to Cochise County and used for about 40 years in their maintenance yard, and the fuel cap did not seal well, then the dirt might have been due to the rigors of work. Nonetheless I have fabricated a locking mechanism to keep vandals and thieves out of my fuel tank.

    The coating is primarily gum which glued particles of sand and dirt into it. The coating makes a really good rust-proof, and fuel-proof, coating.

    https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...5&d=1521477572
    The above photo is inside the fuel tank, possibly in the section where the fuel pump resides. You can see that the gum coating is fairly uniform and most probably coats the inside of the tank. If you examine the top of the fuel pump in my previous posts on this subject you can see it too is completely coated, so it seems reasonable to consider that the entire inside of the tank is coated with gum.
    Last edited by Beyond Biodiesel; 03-19-2018 at 13:17.
    1969 M756A2 running on WVO plus gasoline

  2. #32
    dumpsterlandingfromorbit! gimpyrobb's Avatar
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    So you use this fuel because its what you run in your 6.2 van? I run used oils(hyd and trans fluid) and don't have the mess you do. Maybe its time to swap fuels?
    Don't worry about the size difference

  3. #33
    Colonel Beyond Biodiesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpyrobb View Post
    So you use this fuel because its what you run in your 6.2 van? I run used oils(hyd and trans fluid) and don't have the mess you do. Maybe its time to swap fuels?
    If I had access to hydraulic oil and ATF, then I would not bother with WVO and WMO; however, I have people all of the time giving me WVO and WMO but no hydraulic oil and ATF. So, I stick with these available sources. I ran my 6.2L for 11 years on WVO at 80% blended with gasoline at 20%. Over the 12 years that I have been researching alternative diesel fuels I have worked through its many problems. I plan to keep moving forward on my research.

    Regarding the problem with WVO in a multifuel engine, it looks like for right now a fuel pump that dies not have a zinc pump head is the solution. The Parker fuel pump for the Bradly could be the solution. It will just take some research to verify that. I have the pump in hand. I just need to locate connectors to adapt the 1969 deuce fuel pump power connector to the Parker fuel pump for the Bradly connector. I figure by the end of the month I will have worked through that, with the help of people on this forum.
    1969 M756A2 running on WVO plus gasoline

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    dumpsterlandingfromorbit! gimpyrobb's Avatar
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    How does aluminum react? 5he A3 deuce and I think some 939 trucks have Al fuel tanks.
    Don't worry about the size difference

  5. #35
    Colonel Beyond Biodiesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpyrobb View Post
    How does aluminum react? 5he A3 deuce and I think some 939 trucks have Al fuel tanks.
    Good question, gimpyrobb. Part of my goal here is to find a diesel engine that will truly burn multiple fuels; and Germany's goal was surely being able to acquire fuel along the way through their attempt to conquer Europe in the early 20th century. So, if we document these problems and solutions, then we help the US military work toward a similar solution.

    Either stainless steel components, or aluminum components, in the fuel system seem to not acrete dissolved solids. Whereas, zinc is the worst metal for this problem. Even brass works better than galvanized fittings.

    I have also noticed that the precision machined parts of the injectors (nozzle and holder) both accrete lacquer, ultimately resulting in injector nozzle sticking. The hydraulic head seems to have the same problem. So, my goal has been to force gum and high melting point triglycerides out of solution in my fuel processing methods. For this, among other methods, I use zinc coated sheet metal. I found it definitely helps.
    Last edited by Beyond Biodiesel; 03-28-2018 at 13:37.
    1969 M756A2 running on WVO plus gasoline

  6. #36
    4 Star General frank8003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beyond Biodiesel View Post
    Good question, gimpyrobb. Part of my goal here is to find a diesel engine that will truly burn multiple fuels; and Germany's goal was surely being able to acquire fuel along the way through their attempt to conquer Europe in the early 20th century. So, if we document these problems and solutions, then we help the US military work toward a similar solution.

    Either stainless steel components, or aluminum components, in the fuel system seem to not acrete dissolved solids. Whereas, zinc is the worst metal for this problem. Eve brass works better than galvanized fittings.

    I have also noticed that the precision machined parts of the injectors (nozzle and holder) both accrete lacquer, ultimately resulting in injector nozzle sticking. The hydraulic head seems to have the same problem. So, my goal has been to force gum and high melting point triglycerides out of solution in my fuel processing methods. For this, among other methods, I use zinc coated sheet metal. I found it definitely helps.
    I never had a problem running 90% New motor oil, but I can't even imagine what was in all those new 2014 to 20018 motor oils. I suggest you add some motor oil and put a really good, and I mean at the source of the fuel really good, filter on your fuel system.
    Most of what you speak of is above 7 micron range.
    I did it, published same, works good, maybe you missed it?
    I was here, had a good time.

  7. #37
    4 Star General frank8003's Avatar
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    Another thread same subject, useful information and pictures for the General.
    https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-pump-in/page3
    I was here, had a good time.

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    Beyond Biodiesel (03-23-2018)

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank8003 View Post
    I never had a problem running 90% New motor oil, but I can't even imagine what was in all those new 2014 to 20018 motor oils. I suggest you add some motor oil and put a really good, and I mean at the source of the fuel really good, filter on your fuel system.
    Most of what you speak of is above 7 micron range.
    I did it, published same, works good, maybe you missed it?
    I have been experimenting with WMO for 11 years. My findings are WMO has 3 basic problems:

    1] It has a massive amount of dissolved and suspended solids.
    2] Some of those suspended solids are sub-micron carbon, which I have found deposited also on the fine machine parts of the injector nozzle and holder, and the hydraulic head.
    3] Yes, there are suspended metals as well.

    The solutions that I found work are:
    1] Simply reducing the viscosity of the WMO by blending a light solvent, such as: diesel fuel at 50%, or kerosene at 30%, or gasoline at 20%, and giving the blend at least 2 weeks of settling time will precipitate out most of the suspended solids. Carbon requires about 1-2 month for this to occur.
    2] I have found the only way to remove the suspended sub-micron carbon quicker than settling it for months, is to use a centrifuge.
    3] Yes, an ultra-fine filter works to remove most of the suspended solids, but not the sub-micron ones.
    4] Yes, a magnet can certainly remove the metals, as long as they respond to a magnetic field.
    5] Dissolved solids is completely another issue. And, the dissolved solids have to be removed, or otherwise they end up coking your injector nozzles and valve seats.

    6] There are two ways that I have found to remove the dissolved solids:

    1) By blending WMO with WVO, plus solvents, forces large amounts of dissolved solids out of solution. This requires months of settling time.
    2) Or, fractionation.
    1969 M756A2 running on WVO plus gasoline

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    SCSG-G4 (03-23-2018)

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