Algae oil grown in continous photobioreactor.

[youngunbd]

Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever

that website is what got me all started! I can also show you how to make a 10 gallon an hour processor if i can dig my plans back up, its a continuous thing and is very neat!

The reason i went to algae is because I learned how competitive the companies are out here, they have been caught breaking in to containers to steal WVO!!

I just put the finishing touches on my pressurized algae filter and am going to install it and start filling my 1800 gallon tank tomorrow after school. The reason I'm not going with multiple small containers is because of the type of algae I'm using doesn't require sunlight to grow so I can just use massive tanks.

The latest breakthrough is the possibility that the oil from the algae I use can just be put straight in the tank! similar to WVO but without needing to heat your fuel lines and all, so I just need to test if my oil is thin enough with the correct properties and then it means I could be selling fuel for stupid low prices haha

Just a tip, if you do start getting WVO oil from fast food stores, its a good idea to turn your left over glycerin in to pine scented soap then give it to the stores so they can use it to mop floors and such, gifts like that and talking with the managers each time go a very long way when someone else wants to encroach on your territory. The glycerin can also be put in 1/4 gallon cardboard milk containers with saw dust and make very good firestarters

many good idea's out there with all the co-products, but study that website and your mind might be blown

 

[andytk5]

Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever

that website is what got me all started! I can also show you how to make a 10 gallon an hour processor if i can dig my plans back up, its a continuous thing and is very neat!

The reason i went to algae is because I learned how competitive the companies are out here, they have been caught breaking in to containers to steal WVO!!

I just put the finishing touches on my pressurized algae filter and am going to install it and start filling my 1800 gallon tank tomorrow after school. The reason I'm not going with multiple small containers is because of the type of algae I'm using doesn't require sunlight to grow so I can just use massive tanks.

The latest breakthrough is the possibility that the oil from the algae I use can just be put straight in the tank! similar to WVO but without needing to heat your fuel lines and all, so I just need to test if my oil is thin enough with the correct properties and then it means I could be selling fuel for stupid low prices haha

Just a tip, if you do start getting WVO oil from fast food stores, its a good idea to turn your left over glycerin in to pine scented soap then give it to the stores so they can use it to mop floors and such, gifts like that and talking with the managers each time go a very long way when someone else wants to encroach on your territory. The glycerin can also be put in 1/4 gallon cardboard milk containers with saw dust and make very good firestarters

many good idea's out there with all the co-products, but study that website and your mind might be blown

You're awesome bro! Glad we are chatting about this. I am big on the algae, I just wanted to use the wvo to get a little stock pile of cheap fuel for my trucks.

The veg oil in my mind is stupid as a fuel source in terms of large scale when you compare food crops acre/yields vs algae yields, not to mention the food impact similar to the bogus ethanol inflating everything...

The plans for a 10gal/hr processor was for wvo or algae? That straight into the tan algae sounds great! Seems like it would work even better with older trucks/idi injection even better than common rail high psi stuff, let alone multi-fuels.

I had all my algae stuff on my other comp and it crashed. Needs a new registry loaded, just haven't had time. I had a bunch of sources for algae strains and lipids research on which yielded high.

I'll dig throught that site in the meantime. Thanks again!

 

[youngunbd]

Ethanol is ****, veggy oil is barely energy positive. After idk how many years they still arent sure that ethanol isnt upside down in energy (meaning it takes more to make it than it will release)

this 10 gallon an hour thing is for bio diesel in general. The algae I use is similar to veggy oil so it can be turned into bio diesel, but we still arent sure if it is thin enough to be put straight in the tank, which would be a godsend!

that yahoo mailing list and journey to forever are both awesome resources, we are having a discussion on the mailing list about the company origin oil, they have seem to have used one of the ideas that was suggested by a guy a few years ago, they produced a working version of it. Heres the funny part, they say they can get algae fuel down to 2.28 a gallon, but only using 50:50 algae and waste feedstocks. They say when using pure algae the cost doubles to 5.44 a gallon, so what if they use pure waste feed stocks, does it cut down to 1.14 a gallon???

We dont like people who put up big numbers then say they cant deliver for 10 years, they make us all look bad!

 

[andytk5]

Ethanol is ****, veggy oil is barely energy positive. After idk how many years they still arent sure that ethanol isnt upside down in energy (meaning it takes more to make it than it will release)

this 10 gallon an hour thing is for bio diesel in general. The algae I use is similar to veggy oil so it can be turned into bio diesel, but we still arent sure if it is thin enough to be put straight in the tank, which would be a godsend!

that yahoo mailing list and journey to forever are both awesome resources, we are having a discussion on the mailing list about the company origin oil, they have seem to have used one of the ideas that was suggested by a guy a few years ago, they produced a working version of it. Heres the funny part, they say they can get algae fuel down to 2.28 a gallon, but only using 50:50 algae and waste feedstocks. They say when using pure algae the cost doubles to 5.44 a gallon, so what if they use pure waste feed stocks, does it cut down to 1.14 a gallon???

We dont like people who put up big numbers then say they cant deliver for 10 years, they make us all look bad!

Yeah, no I totally agree. If you look at their choices from a logical standpoint they are clueless.

From sucking up acreage for corn to burn (instead of eat) being hydroscopic as all get out, ps: boaters thank you US gov't so much for that... as it phase seperates and absorbs water in our tanks.. The guys with the old fuel lines and fiberglass tanks thank you as well leaders. Oh what's that? I can still get non-ethanol at the marina for 1-2$ more a gal? Cool, sounds good! Plus it's less efficient.. Anyhow, this could go on all night. Kinda convenient way to trash olders cars/boats to force us into their "new/green" products as well as change our behavior, hmm (cash for clunkers). Both of those are a whole other conversation.

I picked up some unused fryer oil (10gals) to experiment with.

Ill look over at the mailing list and join in. Definitely want to get a production system up and running here at the house. Sooner than later.

 

[youngunbd]

i just put about 1000 gallons in to my 1800 gallon grower, then the corners creaking and squeaking scared me a bit to stop for today. tomorrow ill be able to brace it a bit more heh

I read the rest of origin oils announcement and they stated the waste they wanted to use for their 50:50 mix was agriculture residue, wood, scrap wood, and other things of the sort. I think they said it was hydrolysis and all. I still say its crap because im not the one doing it

I am really excited to see the properties of this oil here and i just need more of it to test on and this tank should do that for me!

 

[Speedwoble]

I am simply not seeing the claims for algae oil coming true. Yes, it produces oil, but it is on the order of a fraction of a percent. If you process enough of it, you can get the oil, but the energy return is horrible.

Ethanol is far better than you are making it out to be. 600 gallons+cattle feed+50 gallons of corn oil/acre sounds pretty good to me. Secondly, the tax subsidy expired at the end of 2011, so don't lie about it being subsidized.
Ethanol is replacing 15billion gallons of gasoline a year.

 

[youngunbd]

me being a bio diesel guy there is supposed to be a hatred of ethanol producers, that being said i hate the way bio diesel is made, it is similar to corn around 50-60 gallons and acre using soy. I must find my source so dont quote me on t just yet but on the mailing list someone posted a report from a college in north carolina where they got about 2200 gallons an acre last year.... thats quite a bit better than 50-60 gallons.

and yeah when you deal with microscopic organisms you generally use small numbers. But when you can fit 3 million or so of these buggers in a gallon of water, then things make more sense. An experiment was just concluded last week where the results came to be a 10:1 ratio over the week. 10 gallons of water yielded 1 gallon of algae oil. this was then scaled up to 300 gallon troughs and he got 30 gallons of algae oil in that week. That was using just the power of the sun and regular sugar, and a bit of fertilizer you can get from any walmart.

I knock ethanol and soy based bio diesel because they are just barely, if at all, energy positive, meaning they have more energy in them than it takes to create. I dont knock algae because the led's i use to light it comes from the 30 dollar solar panel, i can expand and use solar to power the pump too but im too cheap. for now at least. I dont have massive costs, and massive permits and epa regulations and possibilities of contaminating ground water and killing fish for generations to come.

If ethanol was so much better then why are people putting so much money in to algae? Along with our president (even though i dont like him)

 

[andytk5]

I am simply not seeing the claims for algae oil coming true. Yes, it produces oil, but it is on the order of a fraction of a percent. If you process enough of it, you can get the oil, but the energy return is horrible.

Ethanol is far better than you are making it out to be. 600 gallons+cattle feed+50 gallons of corn oil/acre sounds pretty good to me. Secondly, the tax subsidy expired at the end of 2011, so don't lie about it being subsidized.
Ethanol is replacing 15billion gallons of gasoline a year.

50 gals a year.. If you have that kinda land and time then for it. That goes for the bs feedstock biodiesel as well. Systems we are talking about produce all the time at a lower cost and don't compete with food. These systems can also be used by the little guys or even small co-ops using larger systems. Even when comparing open pond algae systems it still blows away the next best alternative by thousands of gallons per year/acre.

I'll go with algae, even if that means I agree with "The TelePrompTer"..

 

[youngunbd]

thats another thing i forgot, and old run down warehouse, or a shed in my back yard dont compete with the bread on your table

The few big goals for me is as follows
1. Make all the pieces to grow and process the fuel able to fit in a module the size of a semi sleeper module. Remove the passenger seat, replace with a bed, two drivers. That truck wont have to stop and pay for fuel again!

2. Run big oil in to the ground!

3. provide a kit that any one can buy and put in their backyard and provide their own fuel for heating, cooking and transportation

4. do whatever I **** please with the rest of my life! haha

 

[andytk5]

thats another thing i forgot, and old run down warehouse, or a shed in my back yard dont compete with the bread on your table

The few big goals for me is as follows
1. Make all the pieces to grow and process the fuel able to fit in a module the size of a semi sleeper module. Remove the passenger seat, replace with a bed, two drivers. That truck wont have to stop and pay for fuel again!

2. Run big oil in to the ground!

3. provide a kit that any one can buy and put in their backyard and provide their own fuel for heating, cooking and transportation

4. do whatever I **** please with the rest of my life! haha

Word!

I may have to email you at some point but right now im starting with a 300gal tank and then scale up once it's down.

That idea you have for the truck based system is golden. I'd love to see that! It would benefit everybody while putting maj coing in your bank.

 

[youngunbd]

well the big idea with that starting with why is everything so **** expensive?

well it costs a whole lot to transport all the goods we need, so why not bring those costs down!

the other one is to build a power plant, 100% of the exhaust is funneled in to algae growing tanks after being cooled down, the algae THRIVE of the exhaust of engines and MIT hooked up algae growers to a power plant and the algae thrived and oxygen and algae on steroids came out of the PBR's. Then you just use the algae to fuel the power plant. so its products are electricity, oxygen and possibly algae shell for animal feed and all the good co products like that


also feel free to PM if you need to

 

[andytk5]

well the big idea with that starting with why is everything so **** expensive?

well it costs a whole lot to transport all the goods we need, so why not bring those costs down!

the other one is to build a power plant, 100% of the exhaust is funneled in to algae growing tanks after being cooled down, the algae THRIVE of the exhaust of engines and MIT hooked up algae growers to a power plant and the algae thrived and oxygen and algae on steroids came out of the PBR's. Then you just use the algae to fuel the power plant. so its products are electricity, oxygen and possibly algae shell for animal feed and all the good co products like that


also feel free to PM if you need to

I actually worked on an SCR duct at Plant Bowen during the summer in Cartersville, GA while in college for some cash. These monsterous multi-million $$ canuter-valves/cats clean the gas leaving the coal plants.. Like you said you pipe in the exhaust "food" into an on site bio plant and boom. Making serious fuel, cleaning the air. Plus selling cheap fuel to the community.

Algae fuel growth systems on their face are carbon nuetral since the carbon sequestered during the growth is re-emitted during the combustion cycle but at a much cleaner rate... Burning biodiesel has much lower emissions than ethanol. Almost all the sulfur emissions are gone, hydrocarbon emissions are cut even further 60-80+% cuts smog in half, and don't forget the evil CO2 that is chopped by more than 2/3's!

Or coal powered elec cars/hybrids.. lol

 

[youngunbd]

plus the fact that bio diesel lubricates a diesel engine soooo much better than any petrol diesel at the pump

then those greenies can claim their car is finally clean after it becomes powered by a clean grid (cleaner at least)

 

[deuceaid]

Not trying to derail anything, but I heard this guy a while ago, and his ideas for better feedstocks for ethanol sounded really good, not stiring the pot, just want to add more ideas to the thread, ( I still would like a fuel for gas engines) but still like diesels more and would rather try the algae thing to make them work.

Welcome to Alcohol Can Be a Gas! | Permaculture & Alcohol Can Be A Gas


listen to him here, it starts around 10:00 minutes in

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34giZ8EiQko[/media]

 

[orren]

centifuge

I think you might want to look into using a centrifuge setup for large scale
oil separation from algae/water. Should be able to get a very low percentage
of water remaining in oil and no heating or chemicals involved.

If the algae oil is what I think it is it should work well by just mixing in some
gasoline or whatever to get viscosity nearer to diesel's.

Good luck

Heh thats the bad part about the internet. Just showing a picture of one of the growers kind of gives away my own little growth secret.

The algae I grow that is sold for human consumption contains almost all of the vitamins except vitamin B, also contains amino acids and all... let me dig up the nutritional information for the others, I haven't had mine tested yet. Been more focused on the fuel

I specifically made my processes easy, meaning that I dont have a man standing there with a filter and another pouring algae water over it. (there is a youtube video of a company doing that)

My current hang up is the large scale removal of oil from algae, basically Im still working out the kinks of turning my small rig into a production rig.... by no means is it beautiful, I think I'm on my third roll of duct tape!

 

[andytk5]

Orren - that's a good point you bring up.

I was just about to ask young if he thinks a centrifuge similar to a dieselcraft one I use to dewater/clean the WVO I get would also work on harvesting the oil from the algae.

 

[Kalashnikov]

So the cost is about 2.25 a gallon to the consumer? Significantly cheaper than diesel but how about the power output? And i think it was said that it burns cleaner?

So far I haven't actually seen anything but talk in this thread. I'd like to see some actuall running data, labor hours, material costs, consumable costs, etc. So far running waste oil sounds a lot cheaper, easier, and more efficient on a small scale IE personal use.

How long does it take to make a gallon of fuel?
How long does it take to produce a gallon that's ready to go in the tank?
How much does it cost to make 1 gallon?
How long does this gallon of fuel last vs diesel?
Start-up costs varies depending on scale but lets just cal it person use scale, price?

 

[youngunbd]

well thats the thing, originoil has been known to talk a **** big game, they havnt actually produced anything yet, neither have I. I just got home and am about to add the last 700 gallons to my grower so I can do my testing

the aquatic species program was started after the oil crisis back in the 70's they were focused on fuels to keep semi's and other diesels running to keep the country moving. They only worked on algaes that were laid out across large areas and i still see that as teh problem with moving this technology forward.... so thats why i have a big ass tank in a shed


and for centrifuges, depending on how much algae you grow, it might not be worth it. If you have a slow growing algae then you must harvest with a low density, then your expending lots of energy to not get much out. But maybe you get a fast algae with a low-moderate oil content then you are able to harvest with a good density to stay energy positive and all

I figure my little filter rig that took me an afternoon with a drill and a caulk gun will save a whole lot more energy and will bring it down to a slurry all ready for my own special processing methods

It all comes down to the algae, If i stick with this one then im OK, if i change algaes or go with a polyculture then I have to change my methods as my pump would tear the second algae up. There is anywhere from about 50k to 150k types of algae, and only like some 5-10k are documented

Edit: as I re read this, I saw something about a centrifuge removing the oil from the algae, the algae I use has too hard of a shell to break that way, some weaker algae may break their shell with centrifugation, but then again, it may not survive my pump either

 

[andytk5]

well thats the thing, originoil has been known to talk a **** big game, they havnt actually produced anything yet, neither have I. I just got home and am about to add the last 700 gallons to my grower so I can do my testing

the aquatic species program was started after the oil crisis back in the 70's they were focused on fuels to keep semi's and other diesels running to keep the country moving. They only worked on algaes that were laid out across large areas and i still see that as teh problem with moving this technology forward.... so thats why i have a big ass tank in a shed


and for centrifuges, depending on how much algae you grow, it might not be worth it. If you have a slow growing algae then you must harvest with a low density, then your expending lots of energy to not get much out. But maybe you get a fast algae with a low-moderate oil content then you are able to harvest with a good density to stay energy positive and all

I figure my little filter rig that took me an afternoon with a drill and a caulk gun will save a whole lot more energy and will bring it down to a slurry all ready for my own special processing methods

It all comes down to the algae, If i stick with this one then im OK, if i change algaes or go with a polyculture then I have to change my methods as my pump would tear the second algae up. There is anywhere from about 50k to 150k types of algae, and only like some 5-10k are documented

Edit: as I re read this, I saw something about a centrifuge removing the oil from the algae, the algae I use has too hard of a shell to break that way, some weaker algae may break their shell with centrifugation, but then again, it may not survive my pump either

I'm working on my grower as well, maybe with a little help from young, so stay tuned..

Young - I was thinking about using the centrifuge like I do when I heat and clean the WVO I collect.
The WVO Centrifuge will filter your oil to below .5 microns. WVO centrifuges will filter a | OIL Centrifuge | PA Biodiesel Supply

I didn't know if this method would be good or even kill the algae. What if you opened the bypass valve to reduce pressure as well as rpm?

Just tossin it out there.

 

[youngunbd]

I dont have much experience with harvest methods other than filters, it couldnt hurt to try, i know some companies rely on centrifuges to harvest but i think it also depends on the algae type

killing the algae wont matter because your processing will kill it, just be nice to it during the growth process

I discovered a small leak in my tank today and im about to go hop in and try and patch it.... that water is COLD

this is gunna be..... im not looking forward to it heh