All Military Vehicles banned from road in Maryland

simp5782

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You can always file a complaint in state court. I can write the complaint easy enough to get an injunction against what they are trying to do. Dont know how long of a stay though. You can't sue the state in federal court for ignoring a federal law.

There is documentation that states that all MVs conform to FMVSS

Someone in MD would have to file it.
 
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Reworked LMTV

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You can always file a complaint in state court. I can write the complaint easy enough to get an injunction against what they are trying to do. Dont know how long of a stay though. You can't sue the state in federal court for ignoring a federal law.

There is documentation that states that all MVs conform to FMVSS

Someone in MD would have to file it.
Yes, I have been looking at what legal standards to temporary, preliminary, or perm. one. Because this involves Federal and State Law, and may require expert opinion, it would be best to form a National Coalition with legal representation which represents the needs of ALL MV owners and drivers. In our favor, is the sheer number of members on this site. and others off-site, who would help such a group financially. States that are currently under fire would be the battle grounds for these issue. States with supportive legislator would be dormant, but could assist other states to prevent the growth of this cancer.

All of us have fair amount of money tied up in our vehicles at stake here. It's a no-brainer.
 

simp5782

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Yes, I have been looking at what legal standards to temporary, preliminary, or perm. one. Because this involves Federal and State Law, and may require expert opinion, it would be best to form a National Coalition with legal representation which represents the needs of ALL MV owners and drivers. In our favor, is the sheer number of members on this site. and others off-site, who would help such a group financially. States that are currently under fire would be the battle grounds for these issue. States with supportive legislator would be dormant, but could assist other states to prevent the growth of this cancer.

All of us have fair amount of money tied up in our vehicles at stake here. It's a no-brainer.
Unfortunately the government's have a mattress in a big room with money on it. They just outbid us. Wasting money is what governments do best so beating us legally is a no brainer for them. States are allowed to govern themselves and adopt laws they want. Perusing a stay is easiest but beating them in court is hard. Since they only must prove that its for the better good of the state which is easy.
Changing the legislation is the only route most folks in those state have.
 

Reworked LMTV

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Unfortunately the government's have a mattress in a big room with money on it. They just outbid us. Wasting money is what governments do best so beating us legally is a no brainer for them. States are allowed to govern themselves and adopt laws they want. Perusing a stay is easiest but beating them in court is hard. Since they only must prove that its for the better good of the state which is easy.
Changing the legislation is the only route most folks in those state have.
Whichever route is taken, we need to get organized.
 
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simp5782

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register out of state, drive it anyway under federal reciprocity. Completely legal !!!!!
However most state laws and ordinances state that you must have a licensed vehicle after you have been a resident of the state for more than 20 days. Some states even less.

This has become an issue in Connecticut with alot of their residents having maine plates. They are cracking down
 

Bill Nutting

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First off, moving out of a state because they won’t register an HMV is short sited. There are a lot of states making it hard on us to register our vehicles. Michigan is one of them. Prior to HMMWV’s being released, it was very easy in Michigan to register a HMV. Now the tide has turned. The mindset that wants our vehicles off the road is very similar to the “ thinking” that a semi automatic black rifle is an assault weapon and a semi automatic rifle with a wood stock is just a rifle. What we are faced with is ignorance. The elected officials that have the power to interrupt our hobby don’t know anything about these vehicles. Their arguments that these vehicles are unsafe is crazy. You would have to believe that a HMMWV is somehow less safe than a 1957 Chevy! In Michigan we are trying to educate our politicians as to the fitness of these vehicles. We have support in the House of Representatives but we have a governor that has committed to veto any law that will allow the legal use of HMMWV’s on Michigan roads. So how long before ALL HMV’s will face the same fate?
As far as an organization to fund and provide lobbyists on our behalf, where is the MVPA? It seems to me that they should step up and take a queue from the NRA on how to inform the public and educate state legislators. Our local MVPA affiliate is working on this but we are a small group and we can’t “buy” a lobbyist to represent our position. You can go to our web site to see some of the effort that two of our members have put into this. www.mvccmi.org
In my opinion, it’s just a matter of time before every state refuses to register all of our vehicles...
 

Reworked LMTV

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First off, moving out of a state because they won’t register an HMV is short sited. There are a lot of states making it hard on us to register our vehicles. Michigan is one of them. Prior to HMMWV’s being released, it was very easy in Michigan to register a HMV. Now the tide has turned. The mindset that wants our vehicles off the road is very similar to the “ thinking” that a semi automatic black rifle is an assault weapon and a semi automatic rifle with a wood stock is just a rifle. What we are faced with is ignorance. The elected officials that have the power to interrupt our hobby don’t know anything about these vehicles. Their arguments that these vehicles are unsafe is crazy. You would have to believe that a HMMWV is somehow less safe than a 1957 Chevy! In Michigan we are trying to educate our politicians as to the fitness of these vehicles. We have support in the House of Representatives but we have a governor that has committed to veto any law that will allow the legal use of HMMWV’s on Michigan roads. So how long before ALL HMV’s will face the same fate?
As far as an organization to fund and provide lobbyists on our behalf, where is the MVPA? It seems to me that they should step up and take a queue from the NRA on how to inform the public and educate state legislators. Our local MVPA affiliate is working on this but we are a small group and we can’t “buy” a lobbyist to represent our position. You can go to our web site to see some of the effort that two of our members have put into this. www.mvccmi.org
In my opinion, it’s just a matter of time before every state refuses to register all of our vehicles...
I left Michigan a long time ago. Best move EVER. J. Granholm sold the state out.

The MVPA has not been as aggressive as it should. I doubt they have the funds.

Let me put it short and sweet. If all of us stick together, we have a chance. Even financially. Even Canada and European countries are banning them. They all refer to each other's precedents. Much like the Steele dossier'. But there is a benefit to their house of cards here. All it will take is one major legal precedent, and the playing field will change. Even Internationally.

Don't give up! Strength in numbers!!!! Currently there are 90, 343 members of SS. Let me show you the math here. Lets say that 70,000 are active. At $10 each, that is $700,000. That is certainly is enough to get started! We need a survey to find out how many would be willing to donate. Or do we? Heck, lets survey who would not donate ! The truth is likely this 50,000 active member would be willing to donate up to $100 to save their hobby. $50,000,000. A 501 3C would need to be formed.

We need a video chat interview with the head of the MVPA to get their take on our threatened hobby.

If we lose any more ground, we are just scrap metal collectors.....
Says me
 
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Reworked LMTV

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However most state laws and ordinances state that you must have a licensed vehicle after you have been a resident of the state for more than 20 days. Some states even less.

This has become an issue in Connecticut with alot of their residents having maine plates. They are cracking down
However most state laws and ordinances state that you must have a licensed vehicle after you have been a resident of the state for more than 20 days. Some states even less.

This has become an issue in Connecticut with alot of their residents having maine plates. They are cracking down
Yes and no. Register the ownership as an LLC in a MV friendly state. The LLC gives you use of said truck in it's bylaws. This also can limit your liability.

Registering your vehicle in your name in another state to avoid paying taxes is fraud.
 
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simp5782

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Lets run a scenario. The State of Michigan decides the Model A does not EPA and Federal safety standards. Owners receive a letter in the mail from the DMV. As I recall, there is wood some where in a model A. Could be fire hazard.


Yes and no. Register the ownership as an LLC in a MV friendly state. The LLC gives you use of said truck in it's bylaws. This also can limit your liability.

Registering your vehicle in your name in another state to avoid paying taxes is fraud.
Maybe you think that, however that MV, over 10,001lbs that crosses out of is domestic state is therefore engaged in interstate commerce and afforded no protection under the domestic state's laws governing vehicles in intrastate commerce. You are required to have a medical card, CDL, commercial insurance, commercial registration/tags, subject to DOT checks/scales and depending on the type of truck subject to the 2290 form. Which will add up to lots of $. My taxes on J tags in TN plus the 2290 is around $2300 a year. They will register the vehicle at whatever the gvwr or gvcw is.

Your 1088 has a gvwr of 44,650. Which means J8 tags which require a 2290 form. A j7 tag of under 44k is ok as a civilian and does not require 2290. As a civilian you can ask for less weight plates as long as you do not exceed that weight in TN. However interstate commerce is required to be registered for the exact gvwr. Which means big money. That would be for a farm type situation here. H commercial tags are nearly double that.
 
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Wolfen

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Actually I have done a fair amount of research on where this movement is coming from. It stems from the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators. Canadian Administrator are members too. Some, but not all, state MVAs get together to discuss issues facing MVA's. Most recently they have discussed their "challenges" in classifying new types of vehicles. Rather than trying to understand and classify various military vehicles, they have basically said they are all bad because they don't meet some Federal Standards. Put another way, they condemn anything they don't understand. Why do they do it? It make their job easier and it eliminates the need to come up with pesky research and standards, etc. They use a mish mash of Federal Guidelines which, in a number of cases, are not even legally relevant. The fact that they quote only one study is suspect. Incidently, I would request that this study be named. I would contact the primary authors of the study at some point.

What needs to happen is a legal precedent really just needs to be set in ONE of the 50 states that other states will defer to.

Attached is the DMV admin from Oregon's presentation. You will get the feel for what I am talking about.

Notice how a number of states where MV have been banned, that their DMV admin is on the board
I live in Oregon and purchased a WC63 last year. I had no trouble getting a title and registration for it. The only restriction is, that it is a historic veichle, meaning that I'm not supposed to drive it everyday.
 

Reworked LMTV

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Maybe you think that, however that MV, over 10,001lbs that crosses out of is domestic state is therefore engaged in interstate commerce and afforded no protection under the domestic state's laws governing vehicles in intrastate commerce. You are required to have a medical card, CDL, commercial insurance, commercial registration/tags, subject to DOT checks/scales and depending on the type of truck subject to the 2290 form. Which will add up to lots of $. My taxes on J tags in TN plus the 2290 is around $2300 a year. They will register the vehicle at whatever the gvwr or gvcw is.

Your 1088 has a gvwr of 44,650. Which means J8 tags which require a 2290 form. A j7 tag of under 44k is ok as a civilian and does not require 2290. As a civilian you can ask for less weight plates as long as you do not exceed that weight in TN. However interstate commerce is required to be registered for the exact gvwr. Which means big money. That would be for a farm type situation here. H commercial tags are nearly double that.
Maybe you think that, however that MV, over 10,001lbs that crosses out of is domestic state is therefore engaged in interstate commerce and afforded no protection under the domestic state's laws governing vehicles in intrastate commerce. You are required to have a medical card, CDL, commercial insurance, commercial registration/tags, subject to DOT checks/scales and depending on the type of truck subject to the 2290 form. Which will add up to lots of $. My taxes on J tags in TN plus the 2290 is around $2300 a year. They will register the vehicle at whatever the gvwr or gvcw is.

Your 1088 has a gvwr of 44,650. Which means J8 tags which require a 2290 form. A j7 tag of under 44k is ok as a civilian and does not require 2290. As a civilian you can ask for less weight plates as long as you do not exceed that weight in TN. However interstate commerce is required to be registered for the exact gvwr. Which means big money. That would be for a farm type situation here. H commercial tags are nearly double that.
Interesting. The legal standard is "commerce".

FMCSA:

Question 5: A driver used by a motor carrier operates a CMV to and from his/her residence out of State. Is this considered interstate commerce?

Guidance:
If the driver is operating a CMV at the direction of the motor carrier, it is considered interstate commerce and is subject to the FMCSRs. If the motor carrier is allowing the driver to use the vehicle for private personal transportation, such transportation is not subject to the FMCSRs.
 

simp5782

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The legal standard is "commerce". As long as you

FMCSA:

Question 5: A driver used by a motor carrier operates a CMV to and from his/her residence out of State. Is this considered interstate commerce?

Guidance:
If the driver is operating a CMV at the direction of the motor carrier, it is considered interstate commerce and is subject to the FMCSRs. If the motor carrier is allowing the driver to use the vehicle for private personal transportation, such transportation is not subject to the FMCSRs.
Still has to have a MC number, DOT # and applicable to their state laws which will require a CDL and all those goodies and commercial tags for Dosmestic vehicles in that state. It says motor carrier. Meaning it has to be a ligit trucking company to fall under that Once again. Most MVs like. 5 ton and a 1088 have a GVWR of over 26,000lbs so a CDL is required. Along with a medical card. Etc.


Its a real grey area on some states vs others most northern states its just a 26k gvwr. Tennessee/Mississippi/Arkansas says a CDL for 26k or more and engaged in profit instrastate
 

F18hornetM

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I really don't have a reply. Just completely disgusted. I really wish [3] counties in this state didn't run the whole darn state.
Ok, what about all the hot rods and antique vehicles? None of them meet federal emission standards but did at the time they were new.
Also, In Maryland a truck over 25 years old does not need inspection and is tagged as historic, but can not be used commercially. Any over 50 years old has permanent tags as antique. Seems to me the need for inspection would be guys buying trucks newer than 25 years old. [Cars/pickups are 20 years old to be historic]
 
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Reworked LMTV

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Still has to have a MC number, DOT # and applicable to their state laws which will require a CDL and all those goodies and commercial tags for Dosmestic vehicles in that state. It says motor carrier. Meaning it has to be a ligit trucking company to fall under that Once again. Most MVs like. 5 ton and a 1088 have a GVWR of over 26,000lbs so a CDL is required. Along with a medical card. Etc.


Its a real grey area on some states vs others most northern states its just a 26k gvwr. Tennessee/Mississippi/Arkansas says a CDL for 26k or more and engaged in profit instrastate
Good to know Wes.
 

F18hornetM

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Maryland tagged my M813, M543A2 and M931 under gross vehicle weight as N/A. I've had CDLs since there were CDLs, but the truck is non -commercial and tagged historic and 2 are tagged antique.
 
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